my debate with kat, notwithstanding, i do not favor attacking iraq unless
they have something terrible that they can use against there neighbors or
against us. i was not in favor of the first war with iraq, even though it
turned out well for the country. i think it was about oil. i think it is
now, more about oil than what is being claimed. however if the government
knows that there are nucks or poison that can be delivered to other
countries over there or could be delivered here some way, then i would think
it was compelling to take him out.
  25 % of the oil sold by iraq ends up where? USA. SURPRISE. some of the
sabor rattleling may have more to do with that fact thjan iraq having
weapons. i do not know, i am just speculating like all the rest that do not
know.




-----Original Message-----
From: Cleveland, Kyle E.
To: 'Barber, Kenneth L. '; [log in to unmask] '
Sent: 9/2/2002 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Can't stand it anymore....

 William Raspberry had an interesting Op/Ed in today's Washington Post.
He
postulated, albeit slightly tongue-in-cheek, that the saber-rattling is
just
that: something to make Sadaam think about the implications of a
unilateral
U.S. action.  Read it (for free) at:
http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/news/editori
als0
2/sep02/1459397.html

I think Raspberry makes the point well that the adminisration has to
come up
with a better rationale for attack.  They're on think ice, logically, at
the
moment.

-Kyle

-----Original Message-----
From: Barber, Kenneth L.
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 8/29/02 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....

 i can't disagree. there will be changes if saddam falls, from us or
from
within. and i'll say this, noi matter how well intended mr bush might
be,
the changes may very well be different from what he expects. may be
different that what others expect. it will be unpredictable. i want him
to
be careful what ever he does. i pray that if we do something or refrain
from
doing something, that it will be right for our country first and then
right
for the rest of the innocent people of the world.
i'll interject here that saddam is a dictator, but, then so are the
leaders
of most of the mid east countrys including our buddies in the house of
Sauld. the common people don't get any of that oil money.

-----Original Message-----
From: Salkin Kathleen
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 8/29/2002 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....

Well, I can see your point, but Sadaam isn't going on a conquest here,
taking over other countries.  If what I've heard is right, he's having
enough problems keeping a hold of his own.  When he dies,  so will his
regime, as is usually the case with dictators.

True, we don't have to go with the world at large, but we cannot afford
to
stand alone, in my opinion, especially as the economy becomes more
global
and what one country does will affect others.

I don't have any answers, either, and like you, I'm just a lowly peon
(used
to be a civil servant as a matter of fact). but can tell you from my
Anthropological studies that when cultures change,  the repercussions
are
overwhelming and so eventually affects more than just the culture
itself.
Same thing with everything else that changes in life.  We need to be
very
very careful and consider the consequences globally.

Kat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barber, Kenneth L." <[log in to unmask]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....


> you have allready saw that i do not know what the answer is, but, if
we
are
> wrong, it does not matter that we had the worlds backing. if we are
right,
> it does not matter that we do not have the worlds backing. failire to
act
in
> the past allowed hitler to kill 6 million people. i do not know what
the
> right answer is, but world backing does not decide what the right
answer
is.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trisha Cummings
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 8/29/2002 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
>
> Hi Kat,
>
>    I agree with you. Frankly since we don't have the world's backing -
> this
> makes us a Rogue nation and we tend to take a hardline with those - as
> long
> as its not us. I may be way off base but it could well trigger
something
> much bigger and nastier than we truly want. My Dad - long time
military
> guy
> - is against it also -
>
>                                           Trisha
>
>
> > OK, I may not get many people happy with me for saying this, but I
> don't
> > think
> > it's the smartest move, making a move on Iraq without Sadaam moving
> first.
> > We
> > ended the war in the Persian Gulf back in 1991 and to go back there
> now,
> > 10
> > years later and strike at them without provocation is not terribly
> smart,
> > in
> > my opinion.  I'd be very surprised if we weren't called into the
World
> > Court
> > at The Hague and not charged with war crimes for it.
> >
> > To the rest of the world it's irrelevent whether Bush I finished the
> job
> > or
> > not.
> >
> > Kat
> >
> > On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:29:20 EDT "BG Greer, PhD"
<[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >     Yeah. I believe that George II feels if he
> > > can't get Osama, he'll finish
> > > what George
> > > I did not. Seems like we will really piss the
> > > Muslim world off more than we
> > > have already. That is not bad in itself, but we
> > > will not stick around to
> > > finish the job.
> > >
> > > Bobby
> > > >Yes, it does. I appreciate kyle letting us
> > > know.
> > > >I need to call my brother to see if the
> > > reserves are getting ready for
> > > >more
> > > >call ups. Of course many time he can't tell
> > > me.
> > > >
> > >