LOL - okay redefine marriage anyway you want. The problem is not the definition of the word it is human behavior - there are plenty of of legally married individuals who beat their wives and children and screw any number of people on the side, and polyamorphous relations that do neither, are faithful and work well. The problems are not about who is with who - but how they treat each other. As long as we worry about the red herring - we never address the real problems. The real problem is the inidividual and their behavior issues, and how they deal with life. One can't put anything in a box and say - its bad this way and good this way. Cults are not within the definition of marriage - they are coerced,controlled individuals under a controlling and power needy individual - deeply troubled individuals on both ends, or innocents that got caught up in the fray. Regardless of how you define marraige in the end people will continue to live as they choose. It is impossible to legislate your morality or impose your will on everyone.
Trisha
-----Original Message-----
From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of ken barber
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Polygamy Story a rant (answer to Kendall long)
i am afraid that as we "redifine" marriage in this
country, there will be a push by poligamist to be
included. but i am resorting to hate speech again if i
say this. just an observation.
--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Kendall,
>
> There are tons of good Mormon people. But Section
> 132 of the D & C
> (Doctrine and Covenants) the book the Mormons use to
> support their
> faith says any man may espouse ten virgins but that
> if a woman
> espouse another she shall be destroyed. This is a
> tenet of both the
> regular LDS and the FLDS. This doctrine has never
> been changed and
> the abusive men (and not all are) use this doctrine
> to support their abuse.
> We have tried to get Hatch involved for years to
> help us free the
> people inside polygamy and to enforce the law. We
> have reported tons
> of serious crimes and he has done nothing but claim
> how many good
> polygamists he knows. When the story of how many
> died as a result of
> this indifference is known, he is guilty in my
> opinion.
> The LDS Church through Senator Hatch and others in
> power would like
> to see polygamy overturned so they can re institute
> it as part of
> their faith that claims men will inherit their own
> planets in heaven
> and become gods themselves with as many wives as
> they desire. (Call
> me a crazy person with a lack of respect for faith
> but this is so
> WACKY it's difficult to understand how thinking
> people could buy this
> "philosophy"). This is not an open political move
> but Mormons in
> power constantly send up trial balloons like the
> statement in your
> post. Hatch's statements are part of that move.
> You would think any responsible person who had the
> knowledge that
> people have disappeared and are missing, along with
> the grossly high
> infant and death rate in there, the unmarked graves,
> lack of
> education, freedom of movement, trafficking of young
> girls across
> state and international lines, etc would call for an
> investigation,
> not be saying oh yes it could be overturned.
> Flora reported her mother as one of the disappeared
> and she has a
> sister who has also not been seen. They claim
> Flora's mother does not
> want to see her. However she turned in a letter to
> law enforcement
> from her mother that was smuggled out saying
> differently. Her mother
> cannot even mail a letter to her from inside that
> compound because
> the people working in the Post Office are
> polygamists enforcing the
> Prophets will. The priesthood leaders (another name
> for criminal
> gang) have let Flora know over the years that
> because of her activism
> her mother is suffering at their hands. They have
> shot at Flora who
> wears a bullet proof vest. Does this sound like a
> benign religious
> group to you? One US Senators should support?
> Every self respecting law abiding Mormon has a
> bigger duty IMHO to do
> something about this than the rest of the public
> because they know
> the history, the beliefs and the doctrine.. Flora
> recently revisited
> the grave sites and said how many new ones there
> are. There are
> credible stories Jeffs built a crematorium in the
> temple in Texas,
> yet law enforcement will not search that compound
> despite the fact we
> have reported others missing.
> Imagine being born inside there. You are not allowed
> to go to school,
> only hear the "Prophets" words. You have no health
> care because it is
> gods will that you were born that way. They blame it
> on the mothers
> lack of righteousness when she has a deformed child
> rather than
> generations of incest all mandated as a religious
> right/rite. Brigham
> Young preached uncles should marry nieces. This is a
> church founded
> on incest and sexual abuse of girls. Joseph Smith
> the founder married
> 84 women, some already married, and some still
> children, some mother
> and daughter pairs, a practice still common inside
> polygamy. Mormons
> today have to ignore all of these facts to believe
> Joseph Smith was a
> Prophet of GOD.
> The American pubic was horrified by early Mormon
> practices not
> because they were discriminating against one
> religion but because of
> the practices of these early Mormons. Before the
> railroad got to Utah
> there was no escape. Women risked their lives and
> were killed trying
> to get the authorities to listen to their stories
> and this is why
> polygamy was outlawed, not as the Mormons are so
> fond of claiming
> because they were discriminated against. I only wish
> todays public
> were as informed as yesterdays was.
> I am attacking the practices of this church. Freedom
> of religion
> gives the right to believe anything you want but it
> does not give the
> right to practice anything you want.
> The pertinent verse are 61 to 64 and here is the
> link to the belief
> that it is ok to destroy women and marry 10 virgins:
>
> http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/section132.htm
>
> I work on the civil suits on behalf of the people
> abused by churches.
> There is a huge difference in the Catholic response
> to this problem
> and the Mormon one. The Catholic people have a way
> to influence their
> leaders. It is not an authoritarian church.
> Catholics have been very
> clear that they want something done to stop the
> abuse of children.
> The Catholic leaders in historic settlements with
> victims have
> publicly apologized for the pain and trauma they
> have caused. They
> have instituted programs to stop the abuse. In my
> opinion the
> Catholic response has been a Christian one and they
> have stepped up
> to the plate to solve this problem. I only wish the
> news media would
> start contrasting their loving and responsible
> response towards
> victims with the one the Mormons have given.
> The Mormon response has been to try and stop the
> civil suits through
> legal or quasi legal means and to settle them with
> quash orders so
> the public does not know the extent of the abuse
> inside Mormonism. I
> have worked on other church suits as well but the
> LDS abusers are the
> sickest, worst dogs I have ever encountered.The
> facts are horrifying
> compared to the Catholic abusers. I am not going to
> mention some of
> them here because people who don't know what happens
> to children
> can't emotionally handle the facts. I can barely
> handle them and am
> often sad and grieving from what I know. l am upset
> by this church
> because I have seen the facts of their victimization
> and their
> response. I have been doing this work for over
> twenty five years,
> long before the public knew the churches had a
> problem.
> I am angry because of what I know and the lack of
> responsible
> response by law enforcement and the AG's. I am angry
> because my own
> family members were victims of this folly. The
> United Nations has
> mandated that polygamy is an inherent violation of
> womens and
> childrens' rights. There is world wide agreement on
> this point.
> Utahns lag behind because of their belief in Joseph
> Smith as a prophet of god.
> The link you sent is by a BYU teacher and you must
> be a card carrying
> Mormon and not write the true history to keep your
> position at BYU.
> Embry, the author, is what we call an historical
> apologist. For
> another viewpoint go to www.utlm.org
> These folks have been sued by the LDS Church to try
> and stop them
>
=== message truncated ===
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