On Monday 26 March 2007 00:59, ken barber wrote:
> deri, every family in  america would get the prebate
> on spending for necessities of life. only after one
> spends above that level would there be any tax. even
> bill gates, need it or not, would not pay on that
> level of spending that would be considered poverty
> level. a persom who only had poverty lebel money to
> spend would probably not spend more. in the example of
> bill gates, he'd blow the poverty level on a small
> dinner party and them pay the taxes on everything else
> after that. i know you do not want the evul rich to
> get it, but hence the name fair tax.

I feel your not attempting to answer any of the points I tried to make below 
(probably my fault for not being clearer). :-(

What is your view on the miser? The non resident millionaire? The trivial 
avoidance techniques?

This tax would widen the gulf between rich and poor, so, as such, cannot be 
called "fair".

>  a lot of the underground ecconomy would get into
> paying their share, and of course we'd put the bite on
> you rich tourist from the UK. and no prebate for you.
> -:)

An "underground economy" is a cancer on society, root it out, don't legitimise 
it by making it pay a "sales" tax!! Would Al Capone have gone to prison 
in "FairTax" America.

As a rich tourist I'm sure I'll "have a nice day" - until the money runs out!!

Cheers

Deri


> --- Deri James <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > On Sunday 25 March 2007 22:41, ken barber wrote:
> > > extendedfamilies are considered separately here
> >
> > and
> >
> > > granny would get her own pre-bate separatly. so
> >
> > thats
> >
> > > not a real problem. it does consider dependernts
> >
> > as
> >
> > > the prebate is set by size of family as the povety
> > > levels are set by the government. so that is not
> > > actally a problem.
> >
> > Granny would be considered part of the "Qualified
> > Family". You are allowed to
> > specify more than one recipient for the prebate
> > payment, it says "then the
> > prebate payment will be divided evenly among those
> > persons designated". So
> > Granny gets half, you get half. It also does not say
> > whether Granny is given
> > the full consumption entitlement (of $10,210) or a
> > dependants entitlement (of
> > $3,480).
> >
> > It does not specify how prebate would work in non
> > family environments, group
> > homes for the disabled, homeless shelters.
> >
> > >  actual cost for a family is set by povaty level.
> >
> > if
> >
> > > you spend more than the desingnated levelthen you
> >
> > are
> >
> > > not poor. ie level of povety for a family of 4 is
> > > presently set by the government.
> >
> > That is not a workable definition of poverty. A
> > miser who earns millions but
> > spends very little is not "poor", although,
> > according to your definition
> > above, he would be. A millionaire who commuted by
> > private jet to his palace
> > in the carribean every weekend, and lived in a posh
> > hotel during the week
> > (rent free because he owns the hotel), would be poor
> > (remember it carefully
> > says that spending outside the USA is not counted).
> >
> > The only "fair" definition of poverty is one that
> > looks at disposable wealth,
> > not what you  spend.
> >
> > > if a person spend
> > > more, then they are above the povety level or are
> > > spending beyond their means. the u.s. government
> >
> > isnot
> >
> > > and should not be into telling people how much
> >
> > they
> >
> > > can spend, however they are pre-bated based on
> >
> > what
> >
> > > the government sets as the povaty level. if they
> >
> > just
> >
> > > exemted foods for example then a millionair could
> >
> > buy
> >
> > > balooga csviar tax free. that would a gross
> >
> > injustice.
> >
> > I actually would prefer Baluga Caviar to be tax
> > free. If the millionaire is
> > taxed on his income, and he chooses to eat caviar,
> > he should be able to just
> > like anyone else. Equally, if a tramp (who has also
> > paid tax on his income)
> > sets aside $1 a month into his "Baluga" fund, it
> > would patently not be fair
> > for him to pay the same tax as the millionaire.
> >
> > > this has been studied extensively by harvard
> > > ecconomics depatment to get all the nuances that
> >
> > needs
> >
> > > to be addressed. it is actually one of the most
> > > studied bill ever to be introduced in the U.S.
> > > Congress.
> >
> > You're tarnishing the name of Harvard Academics
> > here, if a thicko limey like
> > me can see this idea has more holes than a swiss
> > cheese after a swarm of
> > mice, it doesn't reflect well on a group of wealthy
> > professors.
> >
> > Apart from the arguments in my previous email on
> > "prebate" (which you haven't
> > answered yet) think about these things.
> >
> > Capital Leakage (have part of your income paid into
> > an offshore account).
> > Buy Foreign (use your offshore account and the
> > internet).
> > Buy "2nd Hand - no tax" (there'll be loads of 3000
> > mile ex lease rentals on
> > sale).
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Deri
> >
> > > --- Deri James <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > On Sunday 25 March 2007 16:38, ken barber wrote:
> > > > > what do you think of the prebate idea?
> > > >
> > > > There are some problems with "Prebate":-
> > > >
> > > > It does not seem to take account for extended
> > > > families (grand parents,
> > > > dependant adults, etc,).
> > > >
> > > > It does not take into account actual costs of
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > family (we all know that
> > > > being disabled involves extra spending which a
> > > > non-disabled family do not
> > > > have to bear).
> > > >
> > > > Does not take into account debt burden on a
> >
> > family
> >
> > > > when calculating prebate.
> > > >
> > > > If I lived with my sister (me zero income,
> >
> > sister
> >
> > > > $60000 pa) the "household"
> > > > would receive a prebate based on my sister's
> >
> > income
> >
> > > > despite her not giving me
> > > > a cent, so I would be significantly below the
> > > > poverty line.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Deri
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------
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