Hi, Mag,

I don't think it's new, either; just that people feel freer to speak up 
about it.

Having said that, I'll make a couple of personal observations from my 
own experience.

1) I don't see anything wrong with a smack on the bottom - I do see a 
lot wrong with spanking and whipping.  My mother smacked me a few times 
but my dad never did.  He didn't have to.  One look and one look of 
disappointment was all the punishment I needed from him to stop what I 
was doing.

2) I have seen times when what started out as a spanking became so bad 
that I would call it brutalizing a child.  That's when the police need 
to be called in.

Kat

Tamar Raine wrote:
> DV is not new! it's ALWAYS existed, but it's only the last couple decades we knew how much it messes kids up. 
>  
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> Tamar Mag Raine
> [log in to unmask]
> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 7:05:00 PM
> Subject: Re: email was not working on spanking
>
> i'll let those reading the post(above 35 years old)
> decide if they believe it is true or not. 
>
> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>   
>> It is not lack of spanking that has brought on the
>> problems we are 
>> seeing now. It is many things that are rapidly
>> changing in society.
>>
>> At 08:47 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
>>     
>>>  historically  it has worked quite well. i can
>>>       
>> see
>>     
>>> more people who it has worked with than those it
>>>       
>> has
>>     
>>> not worked with. lack of it in the past 30-40 years
>>> has brought on more violence than ever before.
>>>  i will not sit by and have average parents who
>>>       
>> swat
>>     
>>> an unruly child on the bottom as sex abusers and
>>> brutalizers. i'll point up the deceptive tactic
>>>       
>> every
>>     
>>> time i see it used.
>>>  you are probably right in that it does not
>>>       
>> further
>>     
>>> "your" goals. but then again i and many other
>>>       
>> parents
>>     
>>> have not made it your responsibility to raise our
>>> children. nor do we want the role taken by the
>>> government.
>>>  actually finding anything other than links (many
>>> just ads) is pretty hard on what came up when i
>>> clicked nospank.org
>>> . i am happy that you are going to give me
>>>       
>> permission
>>     
>>> to disagree.
>>>
>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Ken we have agreed to disagree before and I am
>>>>         
>> not
>>     
>>>> surprised you do
>>>> not agree. I would like to see laws passed
>>>>         
>> making it
>>     
>>>> a crime to
>>>> punish children in this manner. I am against
>>>> corporal punishment. It
>>>> does not work. It does not further the goals I
>>>>         
>> have
>>     
>>>> for society.  I
>>>> actually threw it out as a trial balloon to see
>>>>         
>> what
>>     
>>>> you guys
>>>> thought. I didn't say ALL, I said most. If I
>>>>         
>> said
>>     
>>>> all I misstate I am
>>>> almost always careful to use qualifying words
>>>> especially when
>>>> throwing out controversial subjects. I agree
>>>>         
>> with
>>     
>>>> Alice Miller and
>>>> nospank.org if you do not that is fine.
>>>>
>>>> At 01:41 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> i saw different tatics that i have saw before.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1st: all civilize nations have aggreed with
>>>>>           
>> your
>>     
>>>>> position. implication nations and people who do
>>>>>           
>> not
>>     
>>>>> are "uncivilized." intimidation tactic since no
>>>>>           
>> one
>>     
>>>>> wants to be seen as "uncivilized."
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. we bring up spanking or corprell punishment
>>>>>           
>> and
>>     
>>>>> themn we start siting studies on sexual abuse
>>>>>           
>> and
>>     
>>>> on
>>>>         
>>>>> "brutalizing children.
>>>>>  no one would want to support sexually abusing
>>>>> children or bruatalizing children. impress
>>>>>           
>> some,
>>     
>>>>> intimidate the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> but here comes someone with brass enough to say
>>>>> studies on sexual abuse are not relavant to
>>>>>           
>> average
>>     
>>>>> parents spanking a average kid nor a average
>>>>>           
>> school
>>     
>>>>> teacher "applying the board of education to the
>>>>>           
>>>> seat
>>>>         
>>>>> of learning" nor studies of brualizing children
>>>>>           
>>>> being
>>>>         
>>>>> relavant to the average spanking or paddling. 
>>>>>           
>> it
>>     
>>>>> sorta neutralize the tactics.
>>>>>
>>>>> how should it be read linda?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> It does not sound like you read it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 07:06 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> spanking and sexual abuse are not =.
>>>>>>>               
>> spanking
>>     
>>>> and
>>>>         
>>>>>>> brutalizing are not =. so your studies
>>>>>>>               
>> quoting
>>     
>>>> is
>>>>         
>>>>>>> apples to oranges. sorry it don't sell
>>>>>>>               
>> here.
>>     
>>>>>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>               
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>>>>>> That was a good school experience and
>>>>>>>>                 
>> mine
>>     
>>>> was
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> similar altho it was
>>>>>>>> in  a city and altho my family did not
>>>>>>>>                 
>> have
>>     
>>>> much
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> money most of the
>>>>>>>> kids were from well heeled families. I
>>>>>>>>                 
>> think
>>     
>>>>>> because
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> of my age (62)
>>>>>>>> there were no discipline problems
>>>>>>>>                 
>> either. We
>>     
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> taught and we
>>>>>>>> learned. To my knowledge no one was ever
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>> spanked
>>>>         
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> paddled.
>>>>>>>> Studies show paddling is bad for a
>>>>>>>>                 
>> child's
>>     
>>>> self
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> esteem and I agree
>>>>>>>> with www.nospank.org  that passing laws
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>> against
>>>>         
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> are best. Most
>>>>>>>> civilized countries have done so, the US
>>>>>>>>                 
>> has
>>     
>>>>>> not. A
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> highlight of my
>>>>>>>> life was giving an address in NY that
>>>>>>>>                 
>> Alice
>>     
>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> was supposed to
>>>>>>>> give but she could not make it in from
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> Switzerland.
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> She is considered
>>>>>>>> the worlds foremost child psychologist,
>>>>>>>>                 
>> one
>>     
>>>> of
>>>>         
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> first to deal with
>>>>>>>> children's issues.
>>>>>>>> I've worked cases in states where
>>>>>>>>                 
>> spanking
>>     
>>>> is
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> allowed and they killed
>>>>>>>> a kid years ago, and covered it up,
>>>>>>>>                 
>> others
>>     
>>>> were
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> brutally beaten.
>>>>>>>> Studies also show  that the brain
>>>>>>>>                 
>> develops
>>     
>>>>>>>> differently when kids are
>>>>>>>> brutalized at home or in school or
>>>>>>>>                 
>> sexually
>>     
>>>>>> abused.
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Physical and
>>>>>>>> sexual violence towards children often
>>>>>>>>                 
>> goes
>>     
>>>> hand
>>>>         
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> hand. So if you
>>>>>>>> teach corporal punishment is wrong it
>>>>>>>>                 
>> sets a
>>     
>>>>>>>> different standard, a
>>>>>>>> humane and compassionate one.
>>>>>>>> And check out Moses Lake WA if you think
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>> rural
>>>>         
>>>>>> kids
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> live good
>>>>>>>> citizenship cause I've worked cases
>>>>>>>>                 
>> where
>>     
>>>> the
>>>>         
>>>>>> murder
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> rate (kid on kid
>>>>>>>> and adult to kid) in rural areas is off
>>>>>>>>                 
>> the
>>     
>>>>>> charts.
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Many murders in
>>>>>>>> farm areas are covered up as farm
>>>>>>>>                 
>> accidents
>>     
>>>> or
>>>>         
>>>>>>>> simply accepted by
>>>>>>>> authorities as accidents when they are
>>>>>>>>                 
>> not.
>>
>>     

-----------------------

To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:

http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy