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----- Original Message -----
From: Betty B <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: Education/Educators


> Joanne,
>
> I don't know about some of the things you pointed out, although I seem to
> recall reading that children are able to learn how to read at an earlier
age
> then they have traditionally been taught.  Likewise, I don't know how much
> homework is too much.  Children need to play too.  I'm reasonably sure of
> that.
>


Yes, especially our younger ones, who learn about the world through play and
physical proximity to it.
I do feel that schools now teach to make sure the kids pass state wide
accreditation tests and not the pleasure of learning. It's why many of our
kids with disabilities are excused from taking state tests so thier scores
don't bring down the district level. I don't blame the teachers in the
trenches for this one but the state and the parents. There are so many times
I feel parents feel that the schools are rsponsible for raising the
children, both academically as well as installing morals. This is truly JMHO
but if get the feeling that we have so many more kids in special ed because
the parents won't take the time at home to re-inforce the days lesson, much
as you said in your orginial post. I know that when my 14 yr old started 1st
grade that over 1/3 of his class was labeled LD. Jack was among them. My DH
has dyslexia as does my oldest son. Jack's was mild compared to the two of
them.When he was in 6th grade he was released from the LD program. He didnot
out grow them but learned to managed them. The special ed director was at
the meeting and was prepared for ratting and raving on my part to keep him
in. When I said it was OK and that I was pleased with the decision he was
quite shocked and asked why. I simply told him that I always felt the Spec.
Ed was to teach them to get a handle on the LD and to teach   them to use
the right tools to help manage the LD. It wasn't there to do the work for
them or to replace parental supervision. He said he's never heard any other
parent express such seniments.School is 6-7 hours of classroom a week.
Parenting is everday  for the rest of the kids life. I am responsible for
making sure my child turns out the way I want him to be. I am responsible
for helping him devolope his character and morals.This is the responsibilty
I willing took on the day I became their parent.


>
>
> We might start by eliminating the word "mistreatment" from our
vocabularies.
> I'm not suggesting that it's use indicates only minor abuses. It does
appears
> to be euphemistic, but only if we carry our thoughts about it to a certain
> level.  My final conclusion is that it gives the appearance of presumed
> superiority by those who use it.  It's also a far cry from pointing out
that
> what we have now is akin to blood money.  Neither does it address how the
> Constitution of certain allied Native American nations contributed to the
> Constitution of the United States.  Generally, if memory serves, credit is
> given solely to the Magna Carta.  Even then, I doubt if most people with
just
> a high school education can recall the significance of the year 1215.
>
> At the very least in this application, we should not use the word
> "mistreatment" in the past tense.


I can't make what has happened in the past right. Prejudice will always
exist. Maybe today it becomes more subtle but then maybe not with the
dragging death of James Byrd or the torure death that many gays have gone
through. There are gang wars today amoung our youth today and all the
versions of West Side Story can't make it pretty. Heck I've heard that there
is dervision among African Americans because one is black enough. Ireland
and Bosnia are happening today as is Isereal and Palenstine. Go ahead and
rewrite history if it makes you feel better but what are you doing about
today to stop the same thing from happening? I can teach my children to
accept others as equal only by my own example. If I treat all with respect
and expect the same from them, I can hope I can start out small ripples in
the pond that will be felt in farther areas.


>
> Why don't some of the parents know how to read?  Are they bad people?

Maybe no one took the time to teach them. Illiteracy may be alot like child
abuse, something that is a vicious cycle in families that needs to be
broken. Is it really a matter of bad or good? Likewise are they good
people?Illetracy is bad not the person.















To put it another way, why don't all these handicapped people go out and get
> jobs and support themselves?

I don't know Betty, why don't they? Maybe because all thier lives they've
heard they couldn't do as well as a TAB. Maybe because it takes a perent to
believe in them and advocate for them while they are young but most
importantly to teach the child to learn to advocate for themselves as time
goes on. Maybe when we stop making the disabled heros simply by the nature
of having a handicap. Disabilities are not choices so we have no choice but
to live with them. Mkae them a part of our life but not what we are. When
YOU act like you are more than a disability, others will treat you that way
too.
>
> Hats off to teachers who teach against their history textbooks.

Hats off to teachers who teach accurate history. To deny history that has
occured will be as misleading as what you reile about now.

> You drive a good Zamboni Joanne, but I wouldn't call your rebuttal a hat
> trick.

Zamboni drivers can't score hat tricks Betty but they do level the ice sheet
so it is the playing field is the same for all who skate on it.
Joanne
> Betty
>
> In a message dated 11/30/2000 6:53:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> > > Perception by the community (not everyone) and parents (not every
parent)
> >  > When things go wrong in any workplace, the search for the guilty is
not
> >  far
> >  > behind.  The point-of-delivery person is the most visible to the
> consumer,
> >  > and therefore the easiest person to blame.  Never mind that the guy
who
> >  made
> >  > the pizza screwed up, we'll take it out on the guy who brings it to
our
> >  door.
> >  >
> >  > Why don't we ever call the pizza joint and yell at the dork cook?
> >  >
> >  > If the majority of educators are saying the same thing, perhaps we
need
> to
> >  > start listening to them instead of laying blame.  Not only are they
> >  feeling
> >  > battered, but they are invisible as well.  I say that this is a
serious
> >  and
> >  > wide spread problem.
> >
> >
> >  As a parent with six kids in the educational system from Kdg through a
> >  college grad in 8 days time, kids who are in involved in special educ
as
> >  well as gifted programs ( sometimes in the same kid), I've seen many
> >  educational changes over the years. I really can't go along with your
> >  anaylsis above Betty for the simple reason that if the pizza cook was
the
> >  one who screwed up and the delivery person knew he was delivering a bad
> >  pizza, isn't the delivery person just as responsible for a bad product
> >  getting to the customer? Likewise in education. I too am old fashion in
the
> >  way I think our kids should be taught. What I've seen over the past 10
> years
> >  is the educational system emphasizing the quanitity of work done and
not
> the
> >  quality or giving the pleasure of discovery that should go along with
> >  learning. I've had 1st grade reading programs that required a child to
read
> >  150 pages to qualify for a passing grade for that quarter. It doesn't
seem
> >  to matter that the kid hasn't been taught to read yet ( heck now a days
you
> >  need to read by the end of kdg). Also reading the back of the cereal
box
> >   theres a lot of good info there :>) or the Sunday comics doesn't
quailfy
> >  for the pages. Reading for pleasure has gone out the window.
> >
> >
> >  >
> >  > Parents and home life
> >  > In many cases, parents don't have the time required to reinforce what
is
> >  > taught in the classroom.  I believe that it is imperative that they
do
> so,
> >  > but our economy is such that both parents are often required to work
> >  outside
> >  > the home, and are unable to help their children in this necessary
way.  I
> >  do
> >  > not fault the parents.  Families have to eat and have a place to
sleep.
> >
> >
> >  Actually, I think you have this backwards. The schools don't ( can't)
> >  reinforce the lessons taught by the parents in responsibilty and
morality.
> >  It is also why as noble as the idea of school vouchers are I don't
believe
> >  they will work. Taking a child out of a "bad" school and into a
"better"
> one
> >  by reputation isn't going to work simply because the child's home
> >  enviornment isn't going to change. 1st, bad schools tend to get that
way
> >  because of little parental involvement. There have always been examples
of
> >  the outstanding school in the "bad" district because parnets make the
> school
> >  accountable by being there. These are working parents as well. If a
parent
> >  is poorly educated himself and can't help the child with homework,
> questions
> >  etc in the  bad district, they won't be able to in the good, school
either.
> >  We recently had the school voucher to vote on here in Michigan. A
newpaper
> >  article in favor of vouchers gave the example of how one family was
paying
> >   and sacrificing dearly to do it)$15,000/yr to send thier 5 kids to a
> >  private school. All I could think of was that $15,000/year added to a
> >  mortgage payment would buy you a much better school district anyways
simply
> >  by moving. The added benefit would be parents wouldn't have to
transport
> the
> >  kids out of the neighborhood,adding to already tight schedules, the kid
> >  could have after school activities with neighbor/school friends and
become
> >  an active part of thier enviornment, and they wouldn't have to leave a
> >  "good" evnviornment after 6 hours to return to a less then satisfactory
one
> >  the rest of the day.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  >
> >  > What are kids doing in the afternoon -- after school -- when both
parents
> >  are
> >  > working?  Do they as children truly understand the need to move that
> which
> >  > they have been taught into long term memory?  Do they recognize the
> >  > importance of proper study habits?  Is that being instilled in them
at
> >  home?
> >  > Is that how they pass tests, or do they cram at the last minute, only
to
> >  lose
> >  > most of the information in the long run?
> >
> >
> >  Again this has to do with the value parents have put on educational
> >  importance. Mine have been involved with extra-curricular activites,
mostly
> >  sports.  Why in the world do they recieve more kudo's for scoring the
> >  winning goal then an "A" on thier midterm paper? Our family sport is
> hockey.
> >  My 14 yr old is truly gifted in the sport, grace on skates, very pretty
to
> >  watch, even when he is giving the oppenent the elbow. He was recruited
this
> >  year by a travel AAA team which is the the type of team that college
scouts
> >  watch for future players. It drives me absolutely crazy that no account
to
> >  the school year scheduling is taken into account when scheduling the
games.
> >  Tournaments often start on Thursday of a school week sometimes
> neccesitating
> >  missing 2days of school per tournamnet. This team is very competive in
that
> >  there are players who travel 90 minutes one way to get to practice
2x/wk.
> We
> >  even have a team member who lives in another state! In order to attend
tese
> >  games and have an excused abscence, my son must recieve permission from
the
> >  prinicipal as well as make arrangements to make sure homework that is
due
> >  while he is away is turned in beforehand and that tests are taken
before
> >  hand/or make up dates are arranged. It is up to the teachers discretion
> >  wether to do this or not. For sports no one has refused. They did give
us
> >  hassle for a family vacation to the DC area where there was lot of
learning
> >  oppertunities though. BTW, my son maintains a B+ average because I
require
> a
> >  B average of my kids no matter what ( they are capable). I have benched
him
> >  if the average falls below that. It was unbeleivable the whining that
came
> >  with this benching, from the team as well as his dad.( he still has to
go
> to
> >  practices, he just can't play) They don't seem to realize that if Jack
is
> >  this good that a future in hockey is possible he needs to learn to read
> >  enough to understand the implications of a contract and not depend on a
> >  lawyer, father friends etc. He has never had to be benched again. The
point
> >  was made the first time. I have no regrets doing it.
> >
> >
> >  >
> >
> >  >
> >  > Search your memory of the high school history text books you were
given
> to
> >  > use.  What were you taught about Native Americans?  Were you taught
that
> >  > Lincoln considered the black man to be his brother, as Douglas
humorously
> >  > stated?  Was there any mention of Lincoln's racist views?  He had
them.
> >  What
> >  > did your text say about the reconstruction period?  Was the flavor of
> >  > reconstruction presented as a takeover by the black man who couldn't
> >  handle
> >  > the task at hand?  Did your text mention anything at all about the
> >  violence
> >  > during that period brought on by confederate whites?  I doubt it.
> >
> >
> >  Wow, make me feel young!!!! I do remember learning that the Native
> Americans
> >  were mistreated, wiped out by disease carried by the "white man" etc.
> >  History can swing to far the other way to though. Native Americans
weren't
> >  all innocent any more than then the 'white" man was all evil. There
will
> >  always black periods in any nations history where thier was prejudice
and
> >  hatred. It's moving forward and changing the status quo that is more
> >  important then beating a "race or creed" over the head continiously for
the
> >  past. It's making sure it doesn't happen again, which sadly is rarely
the
> >  case, as we seem to repeat these mistakes over and over.
> >  It's playing devils advocate with our kids. It's teaching them to think
> >  outside of authority and how to change things with the least hurt to
all
> >  involved. MLK and Ghandi both did this. They did not accept society
wrongs
> >  as rights. Likewise they tried very hard to not act like the very
people
> who
> >  were hurting/keeping them down. They tried to act as non violently as
> >  possible, to the point of putting thier life on the line. It goes to
> >  teaching children that all life is valuable be it white, black, yellow,
> >  young or old, healthy or infirmed. Life is to be respected for what it
is,
> >  life. I do believe this is the point you wre making further on.
> >  Joanne
> >
>
>
> Betty
> aut viam inveniam aut faciam
> "I will either find a way or make one."
>

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