Hi Kyle,

   The ancient Eypytians are more the contemporaries of the Jews in the beginning. As are the Babylonians and such - these civilzations pre-date  writing, also pre-date The Greeks and Romans. The Romans are contemporaries of the early Christians. I am talking about the 3 "in the Beginning stories" foround in the Bible. These existed before the writing time - when they sat around the fires and handed down the stories. 

I think maybe we are both talking about the early Gnostic Christians - here a link to that. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/diversity.html

The early Christians were against war - http://www.users.voicenet.com/~kuenning/qhp/dymond.html

We don't need to change each others minds - I am speaking of centuries before the ones you are. Christianity has its roots in the Jewish past. They go back before writting. Lets face it the oldest real religious artifacts go back 9,000 years ago, and they are Pagan and we conjecture about it - becasue no one survives and they had no writing. The very roots of ancient Jews - are also lost - what we have is what has survived thru oral tradition until we had writing. 

I am sorry you are not doing well. I will think really good thoughts

                                 Trisha

                   




> Well, yeah, Moses was to have authored the Torah/Pentatuch, so the Genesis
> account would have been written by a non-contemporary, though all three
> major religions--Islam, Christianity and Judaism--have no argument.  I think
> some of the most compelling arguments for the validity of Judaism and
> Christianity come from the major prophets Isaiah and Daniel (spec. Isaiah 53
> and Daniel 9).  These two books have been correctly dated by "third party"
> means, yet refer to events hundreds of years later that are also verifiable
> by contemporary (to that time) secular Roman & Greek historians.  That said,
> I think we can both understand that neither of us is apt to change the
> other's view, regardless of the "evidence" presented.  In fact, Jesus
> himself tells his followers not to be heavy-handed and "pushy" when it comes
> to delivering the message of Christianity (Matthew 10:14, et al).
> 
> I am curious, though, if you say you are referring to the same "early
> followers" as I, then shouldn't we be in agreement as to the Christian
> message being completely warped by 200 AD?   As Ken said, the "church" as it
> existed when Martin Luther nailed his love note to the door at Whittenburg
> (and as it exists now), bears no similarity to the church described by Luke
> in the historical account "Acts".
> 
> As for how I'm doing otherwise...not well.  Physical therapy (stretching,
> hot water stretch, deep-tissue massage) seems to be precipitating more
> spasms that relieving them.  Frustrating.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trisha Cummings [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:58 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: religion and politics (long-ish); was RE: Brother in Law
> 
> 
> Hi Kyle,
> 
>     Oral history is what they had - 6,000 years ago. The Jews have been
> around I believe they are in year  5764. At some point they existed before
> writing. Have Mag date the Torah and other Jewish books for you - but I am
> fairly sure there was a time when they were oral, and then became recorded.
> Kyle, I am okay talking about this - hopefully people aren't offended by
> differing points from which to view things.
> 
>   I believe the early followers I was talking about where already
> exterminated by 200 CE
> 
> By the way - how are doing these days?
> 
>                                      Trisha