I'll join you on that soapbox, Kyle! I agree 100%. As much as I love the British, I don't agree with the Church of England's being the 'official church' for the country.  Granted, there is freedom to practice one's religion of choice in the UK but as an American, I feel uneasy at the idea of a church of state.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Deri.

Kat

-------Original Message-------
From: "Cleveland, Kyle E." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 05/22/03 10:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Dang!

>
> Ok, I'm going to go out on a soapbox hanging off a limb here too (though
I'll probably have a spasm and fall off).

Most of you know where I stand faith-wise so you'll be surprised when I
say
that I am a staunch supporter of the separation of church and state.  It's
only because of that separation that I have the freedom to practice my
faith.  Any attempt by the "religious right" to create even the most
minimal
of theocracies should be opposed with vigor.

I believe what I believe because the logic of my faith seems overwhelming
to
me, but it no way was acceptance of that faith forced upon me by
government
fiat.  I believe that our "founding fathers" (a phrase become trite
through
overuse)in no wise ever advocated the co-mingling of government and faith.
For one thing, it's not the government's place to legislate morality.  A
moral code is an agreed upon lifestyle between mankind and his maker, or,
if
you don't believe in a "maker", mankind and his society.

One's moral code is an individual and personal script.  If the government
gets in the business of legislating the finer points between right and
wrong, who's to say that my personal code won't be legislated away?

As far as the "Christian Right" is concerned, they need to become more
familiar with their own sacred texts.  The theocracy of Israel ended with
the temple veil being torn at Jesus' crucifixion.  The implication was
that
at that point in time an individual's relationship with God became
personal
and not national.  These folks would be well served by remembering this
most
basic element of their Christian faith.

From Constantine to the Crusades to the Inquisition to modern day Islam,
we
have a pretty good precedent for what happens when you mix the two
"unmentionables": religion & politics.

Stumbling from soapbox

-Kyle


-----Original Message-----
From: BG Greer, PhD [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 8:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Dang!


Deri,

       I would be terrified if the Christian Right would have power over
our
government. I say more power because in the Bush Administration, we are a
close as we ever have been to that state. The same goes for other
extremists
such
as Shiites. If we have gotten rid of Saddam Hussein(and we can't even say
for
certain we have done so) to be replaced by a Shiite theocracy; we have
done
a
grave disservice to Iraq. Another tenet of our government is the
separation
of
church and state. A theocracy as I understand it, is a government premised
on
certain religgious beliefs. What I know about Muslims and Iraq comes from
my
son in law who is Lebanese and who gave me a Muslim 101 just recently.

Bobby
>