Hi Ken,

On Sunday 25 March 2007 22:41, ken barber wrote:
> extendedfamilies are considered separately here and
> granny would get her own pre-bate separatly. so thats
> not a real problem. it does consider dependernts as
> the prebate is set by size of family as the povety
> levels are set by the government. so that is not
> actally a problem.

Granny would be considered part of the "Qualified Family". You are allowed to 
specify more than one recipient for the prebate payment, it says "then the 
prebate payment will be divided evenly among those persons designated". So 
Granny gets half, you get half. It also does not say whether Granny is given 
the full consumption entitlement (of $10,210) or a dependants entitlement (of 
$3,480).

It does not specify how prebate would work in non family environments, group 
homes for the disabled, homeless shelters.

>  actual cost for a family is set by povaty level. if
> you spend more than the desingnated levelthen you are
> not poor. ie level of povety for a family of 4 is
> presently set by the government. 

That is not a workable definition of poverty. A miser who earns millions but 
spends very little is not "poor", although, according to your definition 
above, he would be. A millionaire who commuted by private jet to his palace 
in the carribean every weekend, and lived in a posh hotel during the week 
(rent free because he owns the hotel), would be poor (remember it carefully 
says that spending outside the USA is not counted).

The only "fair" definition of poverty is one that looks at disposable wealth, 
not what you  spend.

> if a person spend 
> more, then they are above the povety level or are
> spending beyond their means. the u.s. government isnot
> and should not be into telling people how much they
> can spend, however they are pre-bated based on what
> the government sets as the povaty level. if they just
> exemted foods for example then a millionair could buy
> balooga csviar tax free. that would a gross injustice.

I actually would prefer Baluga Caviar to be tax free. If the millionaire is 
taxed on his income, and he chooses to eat caviar, he should be able to just 
like anyone else. Equally, if a tramp (who has also paid tax on his income) 
sets aside $1 a month into his "Baluga" fund, it would patently not be fair 
for him to pay the same tax as the millionaire.

> this has been studied extensively by harvard
> ecconomics depatment to get all the nuances that needs
> to be addressed. it is actually one of the most
> studied bill ever to be introduced in the U.S.
> Congress.

You're tarnishing the name of Harvard Academics here, if a thicko limey like 
me can see this idea has more holes than a swiss cheese after a swarm of 
mice, it doesn't reflect well on a group of wealthy professors.

Apart from the arguments in my previous email on "prebate" (which you haven't 
answered yet) think about these things.

Capital Leakage (have part of your income paid into an offshore account).
Buy Foreign (use your offshore account and the internet).
Buy "2nd Hand - no tax" (there'll be loads of 3000 mile ex lease rentals on 
sale).

Cheers

Deri

> --- Deri James <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 March 2007 16:38, ken barber wrote:
> > > what do you think of the prebate idea?
> >
> > There are some problems with "Prebate":-
> >
> > It does not seem to take account for extended
> > families (grand parents,
> > dependant adults, etc,).
> >
> > It does not take into account actual costs of the
> > family (we all know that
> > being disabled involves extra spending which a
> > non-disabled family do not
> > have to bear).
> >
> > Does not take into account debt burden on a family
> > when calculating prebate.
> >
> > If I lived with my sister (me zero income, sister
> > $60000 pa) the "household"
> > would receive a prebate based on my sister's income
> > despite her not giving me
> > a cent, so I would be significantly below the
> > poverty line.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Deri
> >
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