Hi Ken,
Well, I believe when we have the wisdom to create life from nothing then we can take it - until we then we should have respect for the Gods beings - no doubt they fulfill their purpose as it is willed - so to kill the Gods creatures is to diss the Gods. Each of us is a ripple in the pond of life - and the ultimate end of ripple is not apparent to us but does have form and function in the over all design. To kill is to kill. I am not facing Gods one day - looking into Their sorrow filled faces and trying to answer why I thought killing one of their creatures was an OK thing. Only to hear them say but I ended the birth of their child how would have cured cancer, AIDS, insanity - whatever. When I am wise like the Gods then can make an informed decision on killing being an okay thing. Remember my beliefs are based on non-Christian based ideas - there is no Devil, to make me do - I and I alone chose my actions and am accountable for them and responsible for their ripples, therefore I do a lot of what if's before choosing a path. I tend to walk away from anything I think would be harmful. Of course, I am human so I do make mistakes, have bad days, and attack my from points of insecurity - as we all do.
I think we can agree - we see this differently. Life experiences, belief systems, and upbringing have us all bringing slightly different ideas to the table - the trick is sample and think about what's brought to share, I understand exactly what you saying, and I know that for real life my ideas are not partical - at this point in time.
I think we should drop all the criminals on an island and let them deal with each other - that's a death sentence in reality.
Trisha
> well, trish if someone is going to kill me, and i kill
> him instead, i don't really think that if his family
> came after me that i'd be any worse off than had i let
> him kill me, i'd just be dead a little later. you are
> anti death penalty too. i think the government is
> ordained to carry out executions amung other things.
>
> --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > HI Ken,
> >
> > Hope you had good weekend.
> >
> > Yes, I am saying killing is killing - and no
> > matter what justification =
> > you use, it is wrong. I certainly understand killing
> > in self-denfense or =
> > in protection of ones child - I still will not say
> > it is right, and if =
> > it is then so is euthansia and abortion, etc. And
> > this where we differ - =
> > you are saying some killing is okay - and I am
> > saying its never - okay. =
> > I don't obey the 10 commandments - I follow the "An
> > It Harm None" - Law. =
> > This takes killing out of the good/bad category. It
> > places it the must =
> > think about the whole - cause and effect thing. If I
> > kill someone - even =
> > justifiable, I can cause a great deal of harm -
> > perhaps - that now dead =
> > persons family - is an eye for eye type - and they
> > come back and kill me =
> > - or one of mine - and here we go on the "war" type
> > wagon - so where =
> > does the justifable killing end. In most of the hot
> > spots in the world =
> > these people have been eradicating each other for
> > centuries, and will =
> > continue to. That's what justifing killing does.
> > Killing is counter =
> > productive to the species survival needs. You will
> > notice - most animals =
> > do not wage war on each other. There are no tiger
> > armies taking on other =
> > tiger armies. We can stand to learn a bit from the
> > "beasties". The 2 top =
> > predators on the planet - are us and the sharks and
> > they are loosing to =
> > us. It is time to learn to tame the
> > predator/fight/flight instincts =
> > before we eradicate all life here - we no longer
> > surcome to massive =
> > disease epidemitics - so its time to put the grey
> > matter to work. This =
> > planet is the Garden of Eden - and we can put it
> > back there.
> >
> > Trisha
> >
> >
> > > you were not saying anything about sacrificing
> > your
> > > self, you were saying "killing is killing" after
> > kat
> > > basically ask if you'd kill to protect "amy"
> > (amber).
> > > in addittion to being willing to kill if i had a
> > > weapon, i too would sacrifice myself. but that
> > wasn't
> > > what i percieved you to be saying.
> > > i might not have any more chance of winning the
> > > fight than you. i guess both our bodies are pretty
> > > well worn out. i once was stronger, but, the years
> > > have taken their toll.
> > > --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > Ken,
> > > >
> > > > You have better chance against a man than I
> > do -
> > > > my object would be =3D
> > > > to give them time to get away. I am all of 4'10"
> > > > tall and 50 years old, =3D
> > > > not to mention - kinda disabled around the
> > corners.
> > > > And to tell you =3D
> > > > turth - all this is hypothetical - what would
> > really
> > > > happened - would =3D
> > > > only be known - if this happened. And I could
> > > > actually skip that - =3D
> > > > thanks........ What we discussing is everyone
> > > > assuming they will know =3D
> > > > how they will act. Sometimes we just don't act
> > that
> > > > way in an emergency.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Trisha
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ken barber [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:31 PM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: was brother now Polictics
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > > call it spitting hair or whatever you like,
> > you'd
> > > > like
> > > > > it to be just that simple, but, it is not.
> > self
> > > > > defense is not murder. protecting ones family
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > murder. stopping a murderer from continueing
> > to
> > > > > murder. sorrry, but your view is simply
> > > > simplistic,
> > > > > but, if you can live with it then it is your
> > right
> > > > to
> > > > > have it. but, if my kid was killed and i could
> > > > have
> > > > > stopped it, then i am deserving of all the
> > > > disrespect
> > > > > in the world. if my wife and children were in
> > > > danger,
> > > > > i'd kill in a heartbeat to save them. and i
> > can
> > > > > certainly live with that view.
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > > --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Ken,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't split hairs - it is killing is
> > > > killing -
> > > > > > period. When you try =3D3D
> > > > > > to define the killing that's okay - you
> > start a
> > > > > > whole new round of =3D3D>=20
> > > > > > killing. I do not care what it is - or how
> > far
> > > > along
> > > > > > in life it is - if =3D3D
> > > > > > you deprive it of life - you killed/murder
> > it.
> > > > > > People spend all this =3D3D
> > > > > > time splitting hairson what and when it is
> > okay
> > > > to
> > > > > > kill. The answer - =3D3D
> > > > > > nothing and never. This is why - no matter
> > how
> > > > much
> > > > > > I love and honor =3D3D
> > > > > > Jesus - I will be a follower of his believe
> > > > system
> > > > > > as it stands - the =3D3D
> > > > > > very ancient and first "Christians" lived
> > like
> > > > Jesus
> > > > > > - but did not =3D3D
> > > > > > workship Jesus - They no longer exist - they
> > > > where
> > > > > > eradicated by other =3D3D
> > > > > > Christians - that's the kind of Christian I
> > > > would
> > > > > > be. I trust GOD to =3D3D
> > > > > > show the ones who kill and think its okay
> > for
> > > > any
> > > > > > reason - the error of =3D3D
> > > > > > their ways - when they die. Kinda like
> > which
> > > > was
> > > > > > the part of do not =3D3D
> > > > > > kill - you didn't understand. Becasue most
> > > > people
> > > > > > are insecure and worry =3D3D>
> > > > > > about being wrong they will argue their
> > point -
> > > > > > frankly till they find =3D3D
> > > > > > the need to shoot you. So they glom onto
> > > > defending
> > > > > > the right to kill - =3D3D
> > > > > > rather living up to the request not to
> > > > kill.=3D3D20
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What people are saying here is the hair
> > spliting
> > > > > > about its okay to kill =3D3D
> > > > > > - if. I am saying - its not okay to kill -
> > > > period.
> > > > > > If you can defend =3D3D
> > > > > > killing sometimes - then you can defend all
> > the
> > > > > > other thou shalt nots =3D3D
> > > > > > also - and frankly that erodes the entire
> > moral
> > > > > > system. Which is where =3D3D
> > > > > > we are to today. Not becasue we weren't
> > given
> > > > good
> > > > > > imperitives but =3D3D
> > > > > > because we figure out how to wiggle out of
> > them
> > > > when
> > > > > > they don't fit our =3D3D
> > > > > > needs. Morality begins with each of us
> > deciding
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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