HI Ken,
Hope you had good weekend.
Yes, I am saying killing is killing - and no matter what justification you use, it is wrong. I certainly understand killing in self-denfense or in protection of ones child - I still will not say it is right, and if it is then so is euthansia and abortion, etc. And this where we differ - you are saying some killing is okay - and I am saying its never - okay. I don't obey the 10 commandments - I follow the "An It Harm None" - Law. This takes killing out of the good/bad category. It places it the must think about the whole - cause and effect thing. If I kill someone - even justifiable, I can cause a great deal of harm - perhaps - that now dead persons family - is an eye for eye type - and they come back and kill me - or one of mine - and here we go on the "war" type wagon - so where does the justifable killing end. In most of the hot spots in the world these people have been eradicating each other for centuries, and will continue to. That's what justifing killing does. Killing is counter productive to the species survival needs. You will notice - most animals do not wage war on each other. There are no tiger armies taking on other tiger armies. We can stand to learn a bit from the "beasties". The 2 top predators on the planet - are us and the sharks and they are loosing to us. It is time to learn to tame the predator/fight/flight instincts before we eradicate all life here - we no longer surcome to massive disease epidemitics - so its time to put the grey matter to work. This planet is the Garden of Eden - and we can put it back there.
Trisha
> you were not saying anything about sacrificing your
> self, you were saying "killing is killing" after kat
> basically ask if you'd kill to protect "amy" (amber).
> in addittion to being willing to kill if i had a
> weapon, i too would sacrifice myself. but that wasn't
> what i percieved you to be saying.
> i might not have any more chance of winning the
> fight than you. i guess both our bodies are pretty
> well worn out. i once was stronger, but, the years
> have taken their toll.
> --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Ken,
> >
> > You have better chance against a man than I do -
> > my object would be =
> > to give them time to get away. I am all of 4'10"
> > tall and 50 years old, =
> > not to mention - kinda disabled around the corners.
> > And to tell you =
> > turth - all this is hypothetical - what would really
> > happened - would =
> > only be known - if this happened. And I could
> > actually skip that - =
> > thanks........ What we discussing is everyone
> > assuming they will know =
> > how they will act. Sometimes we just don't act that
> > way in an emergency.
> >
> >
> > Trisha
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ken barber [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:31 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: was brother now Polictics
> > >=20
> > > call it spitting hair or whatever you like, you'd
> > like
> > > it to be just that simple, but, it is not. self
> > > defense is not murder. protecting ones family is
> > not
> > > murder. stopping a murderer from continueing to
> > > murder. sorrry, but your view is simply
> > simplistic,
> > > but, if you can live with it then it is your right
> > to
> > > have it. but, if my kid was killed and i could
> > have
> > > stopped it, then i am deserving of all the
> > disrespect
> > > in the world. if my wife and children were in
> > danger,
> > > i'd kill in a heartbeat to save them. and i can
> > > certainly live with that view.
> > >=20
> > > --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > Hi Ken,
> > > >
> > > > I don't split hairs - it is killing is
> > killing -
> > > > period. When you try =3D
> > > > to define the killing that's okay - you start a
> > > > whole new round of =3D>
> > > > killing. I do not care what it is - or how far
> > along
> > > > in life it is - if =3D
> > > > you deprive it of life - you killed/murder it.
> > > > People spend all this =3D
> > > > time splitting hairson what and when it is okay
> > to
> > > > kill. The answer - =3D
> > > > nothing and never. This is why - no matter how
> > much
> > > > I love and honor =3D
> > > > Jesus - I will be a follower of his believe
> > system
> > > > as it stands - the =3D
> > > > very ancient and first "Christians" lived like
> > Jesus
> > > > - but did not =3D
> > > > workship Jesus - They no longer exist - they
> > where
> > > > eradicated by other =3D
> > > > Christians - that's the kind of Christian I
> > would
> > > > be. I trust GOD to =3D
> > > > show the ones who kill and think its okay for
> > any
> > > > reason - the error of =3D
> > > > their ways - when they die. Kinda like which
> > was
> > > > the part of do not =3D
> > > > kill - you didn't understand. Becasue most
> > people
> > > > are insecure and worry =3D
> > > > about being wrong they will argue their point -
> > > > frankly till they find =3D
> > > > the need to shoot you. So they glom onto
> > defending
> > > > the right to kill - =3D
> > > > rather living up to the request not to
> > kill.=3D20
> > > >
> > > > What people are saying here is the hair spliting
> > > > about its okay to kill =3D
> > > > - if. I am saying - its not okay to kill -
> > period.
> > > > If you can defend =3D
> > > > killing sometimes - then you can defend all the
> > > > other thou shalt nots =3D
> > > > also - and frankly that erodes the entire moral
> > > > system. Which is where =3D
> > > > we are to today. Not becasue we weren't given
> > good
> > > > imperitives but =3D
> > > > because we figure out how to wiggle out of them
> > when
> > > > they don't fit our =3D
> > > > needs. Morality begins with each of us deciding
> > we
> > > > are going to follow =3D
> > > > the good words or make excuses when they are
> > hard to
> > > > live up to. Ghandi, =3D
> > > > defeated the British - and as far I know - he
> > killed
> > > > not one person. I =3D
> > > > am sure God loves Ghandi, even if he was
> > something
> > > > other than Christian. =3D
> > > > Lets face it everytime the Christians - argue
> > about
> > > > something - there's =3D
> > > > another version of Christianity born. So to me
> > its
> > > > not about the beliefs =3D
> > > > its about whose right. Arrogance and pride
> > should be
> > > > sins becasue they =3D
> > > > harm.
> > > >
> > > > As I have said - I am simple - all the hair
> > > > splitting gives me a =3D
> > > > headache becasue it just justifies some one
> > breaking
> > > > the rules becasue =3D
> > > > they weren't meant to apply to them or only
> > apply to>=20
> > > > them. So, its much =3D
> > > > easier to follow - Love is the Law ..... love
> > > > doesn't kill, love doesn't =3D
> > > > cheat, lie or steal. Love doesn't own a big
> > house or
> > > > drive a fancy car - =3D
> > > > love is there for everyone when they need
> > something
> > > > - a shirt, a hand a =3D
> > > > meal, a roof. Love is what Jesus represented
> > with
> > > > the way he lived his =3D
> > > > life. I doubt he suffered self-delusion,
> > hypocrisy
> > > > and the need to split =3D
> > > > hairs over his words. The miracle of Jesus - is
> > that
> > > > he lived his =3D
> > > > beliefs, and GOD takes care of those -we glorify
> > the
> > > > people who live =3D
> > > > their beliefs like that - Mother Teresa, etc.
> > And we
> > > > fight to the last =3D
> > > > ditch to be right without evelooking at how
> > > > hypocritial we are. The =3D
> > > > people will defend killing - never see the
> > > > hypocrisy of it - its okay =3D
> > > > me, when I think its right but its wrong for you
> > > > becasue I say so.. =3D
> > > > Think about what you are defending and the
> > endless
> > > > cycle of death it =3D
> > > > perpetuates.
> > > >>
> > > > Trisha
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ken barber [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:58 PM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: was brother now Polictics
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > > --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > killing is murder - whether you kill one or
> > a
> > > > > > million.
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > > except when you kill a perfectly viable baby
> > and
> > > > call
> > > > > it a fetus.
> > > > >=3D20
> > > > > __________________________________
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> > >=20
> > > __________________________________
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
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