The polygamists are of a cult   mentality, and that is not healthy. Few
people understand cults, they control you, and make you afraid of getting
out. I used to be in a cult - an eastern Indian one where gurus had sex
with teenaged girls. it's all the same crap. I had no idea birth defects
were so rampant, though it makes sense. 

Tamar Raine
[log in to unmask]
Now serving tee shirts! and soon to come, Maui posters and other items;
www.cafepress.com/tamarmag


> [Original Message]
> From: Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 9/7/2006 12:39:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Polygamy Story a rant (answer to Kendall long)
>
> Kendall,
>
> There are tons of good Mormon people. But Section 132 of the D & C 
> (Doctrine and Covenants) the book the Mormons use to support their 
> faith says any man may espouse ten virgins but that if a woman 
> espouse another she shall be destroyed. This is a tenet of both the 
> regular LDS and the FLDS. This doctrine has never been changed and 
> the abusive men (and not all are) use this doctrine to support their
abuse.
> We have tried to get Hatch involved for years to help us free the 
> people inside polygamy and to enforce the law. We have reported tons 
> of serious crimes and he has done nothing but claim how many good 
> polygamists he knows. When the story of how many died as a result of 
> this indifference is known, he is guilty in my opinion.
> The LDS Church through Senator Hatch and others in power would like 
> to see polygamy overturned so they can re institute it as part of 
> their faith that claims men will inherit their own planets in heaven 
> and become gods themselves with as many wives as they desire. (Call 
> me a crazy person with a lack of respect for faith but this is so 
> WACKY it's difficult to understand how thinking people could buy this 
> "philosophy"). This is not an open political move but Mormons in 
> power constantly send up trial balloons like the statement in your 
> post. Hatch's statements are part of that move.
> You would think any responsible person who had the knowledge that 
> people have disappeared and are missing, along with the grossly high 
> infant and death rate in there, the unmarked graves, lack of 
> education, freedom of movement, trafficking of young girls across 
> state and international lines, etc would call for an investigation, 
> not be saying oh yes it could be overturned.
> Flora reported her mother as one of the disappeared and she has a 
> sister who has also not been seen. They claim Flora's mother does not 
> want to see her. However she turned in a letter to law enforcement 
> from her mother that was smuggled out saying differently. Her mother 
> cannot even mail a letter to her from inside that compound because 
> the people working in the Post Office are polygamists enforcing the 
> Prophets will. The priesthood leaders (another name for criminal 
> gang) have let Flora know over the years that because of her activism 
> her mother is suffering at their hands. They have shot at Flora who 
> wears a bullet proof vest. Does this sound like a benign religious 
> group to you? One US Senators should support?
> Every self respecting law abiding Mormon has a bigger duty IMHO to do 
> something about this than the rest of the public because they know 
> the history, the beliefs and the doctrine.. Flora recently revisited 
> the grave sites and said how many new ones there are. There are 
> credible stories Jeffs built a crematorium in the temple in Texas, 
> yet law enforcement will not search that compound despite the fact we 
> have reported others missing.
> Imagine being born inside there. You are not allowed to go to school, 
> only hear the "Prophets" words. You have no health care because it is 
> gods will that you were born that way. They blame it on the mothers 
> lack of righteousness when she has a deformed child rather than 
> generations of incest all mandated as a religious right/rite. Brigham 
> Young preached uncles should marry nieces. This is a church founded 
> on incest and sexual abuse of girls. Joseph Smith the founder married 
> 84 women, some already married, and some still children, some mother 
> and daughter pairs, a practice still common inside polygamy. Mormons 
> today have to ignore all of these facts to believe Joseph Smith was a 
> Prophet of GOD.
> The American pubic was horrified by early Mormon practices not 
> because they were discriminating against one religion but because of 
> the practices of these early Mormons. Before the railroad got to Utah 
> there was no escape. Women risked their lives and were killed trying 
> to get the authorities to listen to their stories and this is why 
> polygamy was outlawed, not as the Mormons are so fond of claiming 
> because they were discriminated against. I only wish todays public 
> were as informed as yesterdays was.
> I am attacking the practices of this church. Freedom of religion 
> gives the right to believe anything you want but it does not give the 
> right to practice anything you want.
> The pertinent verse are 61 to 64 and here is the link to the belief 
> that it is ok to destroy women and marry 10 virgins: 
> http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/section132.htm
>
> I work on the civil suits on behalf of the people abused by churches. 
> There is a huge difference in the Catholic response to this problem 
> and the Mormon one. The Catholic people have a way to influence their 
> leaders. It is not an authoritarian church. Catholics have been very 
> clear that they want something done to stop the abuse of children. 
> The Catholic leaders in historic settlements with victims have 
> publicly apologized for the pain and trauma they have caused. They 
> have instituted programs to stop the abuse. In my opinion the 
> Catholic response has been a Christian one and they have stepped up 
> to the plate to solve this problem. I only wish the news media would 
> start contrasting their loving and responsible response towards 
> victims with the one the Mormons have given.
> The Mormon response has been to try and stop the civil suits through 
> legal or quasi legal means and to settle them with quash orders so 
> the public does not know the extent of the abuse inside Mormonism. I 
> have worked on other church suits as well but the LDS abusers are the 
> sickest, worst dogs I have ever encountered.The facts are horrifying 
> compared to the Catholic abusers. I am not going to mention some of 
> them here because people who don't know what happens to children 
> can't emotionally handle the facts. I can barely handle them and am 
> often sad and grieving from what I know. l am upset by this church 
> because I have seen the facts of their victimization and their 
> response. I have been doing this work for over twenty five years, 
> long before the public knew the churches had a problem.
> I am angry because of what I know and the lack of responsible 
> response by law enforcement and the AG's. I am angry because my own 
> family members were victims of this folly. The United Nations has 
> mandated that polygamy is an inherent violation of womens and 
> childrens' rights. There is world wide agreement on this point. 
> Utahns lag behind because of their belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet of
god.
> The link you sent is by a BYU teacher and you must be a card carrying 
> Mormon and not write the true history to keep your position at BYU. 
> Embry, the author,  is what we call an historical apologist. For 
> another viewpoint go to www.utlm.org
> These folks have been sued by the LDS Church to try and stop them 
> from publishing the truth but the LDS have not prevailed in these 
> attempts to stop free speech.
> The media often claims because of LDS pressure that the LDS are not 
> polygamists and these groups are not Mormon fundamentalists. That is 
> a lie. These groups are offshoots of the LDS and they all descend 
> from the same pioneers. Mitt Romneys grandparents were polygamist. My 
> great grandparents were. My immediate family stopped the practice and 
> so did his. We both have relatives that still practice it. The 
> difference is I want to free mine and turn those compounds into free 
> societies and he wants to distance himself from them so he can run 
> for President.
>
>
> t 07:51 AM 9/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Linda and others,
> >
> >Here's a link to one history of polygamy within the LDS Church.  It
> >specifically mentions the polygamist sect in Hilldale UT and Colorado
> >City, AZ.
> >
> >http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/p/POLYGAMY.html
> >
> >Transcript of an interview with Orrin Hatch discussing polygamy.
> >
> >http://www.polygamyinfo.com/media%20plyg%2051%20trib.htm
> >
> >
> >As I read the interview, Senator Hatch is saying the current laws and
> >Supreme Court decisions regarding polygamy could be overturned on
> >Constitutional grounds, not that he supports the practice.  The risk of
> >this are higher, IMHO, with the current conservative bent of the Supreme
> >Court.
> >
> >Try as I might, I can not find a single site _sponsored_ by Senator
> >Hatch where he supports polygamy.
> >
> >
> >Section from the Utah Constitution specifically forbidding polygamy:
> >
> >Article XXIV, Section 2.   [Territorial laws continued.]
> >      All laws of the Territory of Utah now in force, not repugnant to
> >this Constitution, shall remain in force until they expire by their own
> >limitations, or are altered or repealed by the Legislature. The act of
> >the Governor and Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Utah,
> >entitled, "An Act to punish polygamy and other kindred offenses,"
> >approved February 4th, A.D. 1892, in so far as the same defines and
> >imposes penalties for polygamy, is hereby declared to be in force in the
> >State of Utah.
> >
> >Linda, the question I asked remains from when you brought this up the
> >last time:
> >
> >"Why is it OK to attack a specific faith on the list, but apparently not
> >OK to say things _in support of_ a specific faith, or to attack other
> >faiths?"
> >
> >
> >Kendall=20
> >
> >An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
> >
> >The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
> >progress depends on the unreasonable man.
> >
> >-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Linda Walker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:55 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [C-PALSY] Polygamy Story a rant
> >
> >Kendall,
> >The LDS in my opinion are guilty as sin for allowing this to go on=20
> >for so long. Renouncing something with one face while you turn your=20
> >back on the injustice and watch it proliferate in that church state=20
> >Utah is not ok with me. We've been trying to get the LDS to pay=20
> >attention to this for years and they swept it under the rug as long=20
> >as they could. Many died as a result of their self righteous=20
> >indifference. What did any one of your friends ever do to stop it?=20
> >See what I mean. I am mad as hell at the LDS and especially those in=20
> >positions to have done something. It's been a long hard road waking=20
> >them up. Now all they can do is say it's not us. Sorry, not good=20
> >enough. It is people from their own families who continued the=20
> >practice. Nearly all old time Mormons come from polygamy including=20
> >Senator Hatch who has pro polygamy stuff on his web site. You can't
> >believe how hard it's been to wake up the LDS. Nonetheless also=20
> >really happy he is caught and now the FBI needs to charge him up.=20
> >Before they fenced off the graveyard in there, I documented that over=20
> >50% of the graves were children under 10 and 58 graves were entirely=20
> >unmarked. It is a killing field in there and the public does not know=20
> >how really grievous it is yet but they will.
> >Imagine if the Army came across 58 unmarked baby graves, little=20
> >mounds in the sand in Iraq. There would be a huge outcry but we have=20
> >had a really difficult time getting people to listen. The FBI made=20
> >fun of Flora and I when we turned in our evidence to them. They=20
> >wanted nothing to do with it but we finally forced the issue. A few=20
> >activists ...
> >
> >At 08:00 AM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
> > >Linda,
> > >
> > >Really glad they caught this scum-bag!  Out here in Wyoming and Utah, =
> >=3D
> > >it's been _big_ news, and my Mormon friends are uniformly happy that =
> >=3D
> > >he's been caught, as too many people don't differentiate between the =
> >=3D
> > >FLDS sect that Jeffs ran (runs), and the LDS Church, which renounced =
> >=3D
> > >polygamy in the 1890's.
> > >
> > >Kendall=3D20
> > >
> > >An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
> > >
> > >The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one =
> >=3D
> > >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all =3D
> > >progress depends on the unreasonable man.
> > >
> > >-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Mary Katherine Powers [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=3D20
> > >Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:15 AM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [C-PALSY] Polygamy Story
> > >
> > >I'm really glad that you've done such great work!  that's wonderful.  I
> >=3D
> > >know it's extremely frustrating, though.
> > >=3D20
> > >I am slowly working on becoming active in the child abuse =3D
> > >prevention/recovery field myself.  So far all I've managed to do is =3D
> > >donate to RAINN and do some volunteer work for them.  I also try to
> >give =3D
> > >information on trauma to people who seem to need it.  It is so
> >important =3D
> > >to work in this field because there are so many awful things that go
> >on, =3D
> > >and "the system" is often not helpful (to put it mildly). =3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >It sounds like you've been active for a long time and done a lot of =3D
> > >really good things.  I'll check out your website.
> > >=3D20
> > >Mary Katherine=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [log in to unmask]
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Sent: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 6:21 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Polygamy Story
> > >
> > >
> > >Kudos on your work, Linda! You did made a reference to the polygamy
> >cult =3D
> > >one time when you said how the FBI couldn't catch the polygamist with a
> >=3D
> > >gaggle of teenaged girls in long skirts and bonnets. I understand he
> >was =3D
> > >only with a few people when he was caught in a traffic stop. I think =
> >=3D
> > >life on the run take so much planning and effort just to stay under the
> >=3D
> > >radar, that it's the little things that trip up the fugitives.=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >Kat=3DCE=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >On 6 Sep 2006, at 03:35, Linda Walker wrote:=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >Hello Everyone:=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >I've never brought this up on list but it seems ok to talk about things
> >=3D
> > >other than CP and this issue, along with helping Case is a big part of
> >=3D
> > >my life.=3D20
> > >Don't know if anyone is watching the polygamy story on CNN and Larry =
> >=3D
> > >King, among other shows. Just letting you know that it is part of my =
> >=3D
> > >civil and human rights work I have been doing for years. I was the
> >first =3D
> > >person on the web ranting about this and Flora Jessop, a true hero, is
> >=3D
> > >the spokesperson for this issue from Child Protection Project, a group
> >I =3D
> > >founded. Case has met Flora and seen her on tv although his parents =3D
> > >won't let him watch most of it and I agree with that but he knows his =
> >=3D
> > >Nana fights the bad guys.=3D20
> > >I know it is not CP related except that so many polygamy kids are =3D
> > >subject to difficult births, have disabilities, and not getting the =3D
> > >health care they need. It is a very sad story and we have not broken
> >all =3D
> > >the elements of it yet. My non profit is www.childpro.org.=3D20
> > >I am pretty proud of this life long work because now that the full
> >story =3D
> > >is getting out people (including my own adult children) have stopped =
> >=3D
> > >calling me a crazy exaggerator. Now it's, "Mom, I heard your story on =
> >=3D
> > >public radio or the like." The fact is it is impossible to exaggerate =
> >=3D
> > >how bad it is in there. Even the newscasters are having trouble
> >wrapping =3D
> > >their minds around it. So why can we implement democracy in Afghanistan
> >=3D
> > >and save the women behind the veil there but we can do nothing to stop
> >=3D
> > >this in our own country? Many things disgust me but none as much as =3D
> > >this.=3D20
> > >Larry King was supposed to do a show on this tomorrow but he is doing =
> >=3D
> > >Tom Cruise baby pictures instead! Wow, that's more newsworthy I guess
> >in =3D
> > >this news as entertainment industry. The show will run eventually. It's
> >=3D
> > >on the documentary Banking on Heaven about polygamy.=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >All the best to everyone,=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >Linda=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >-----------------------=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >-----------------------=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=3D20
> > >_______________________________________________________________________
> >_
> > >Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email =
> >=3D
> > >and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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