tr
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Keep the [log in to unmask], PLEASE.
tr
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tamar Mag Raine
[log in to unmask]
WWW.cafepress.com/Tamarmag
Lots of new art & designs ~ come and look!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message ----
From: Kathy Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 5:15:31 PM
Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe)
Mag, you are subscribed under two addresses - which one do you want
us to keep?
Kat
On Mar 16, 2007, at 8:00 PM, Tamar Raine wrote:
> Der, or Kat, or Ken, I am receiving each message twice! Will you
> please fix this? Thankyou!
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Tamar Mag Raine
> [log in to unmask]
>
> WWW.cafepress.com/Tamarmag
> Lots of new art & designs ~ come and look!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kendall D. Corbett <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 3:02:41 PM
> Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe)
>
>
> Ken,
>
> I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "A Christian has
> to live
> his whole life as a Christian." There are too many people with
> political
> power who portray themselves as Christian who "play the Christ
> card" when
> it's convenient, but don't actually live there lives according to
> the tenets
> of Christianity.
>
> I don't think the US was ever a "Christian Nation," but I think
> Christianity
> has had as large (if not the largest) an influence on most of our
> political
> leaders as any other religious/philosophical/spiritual schema. If
> these
> people truly lived their faith, there might be less discord. On
> the other
> hand, maybe there'd be more.
>
>
> On 3/16/07, ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> yes, mike. i agree. we do better at challenging the
>> nation when we are not dominating. you know it is a
>> problem in that we are responsible to participate as
>> conscience dictates, but, not to try to dominate. i do
>> not know the answer to that problem.
>>
>> --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll say it again, Christianity was never meant to
>>> be a national faith.
>>> Because it is, though, we have such instances as
>>> pagan reaming pagan, and
>>> Christian reaming Christian. The sad fact is that
>>> when Christianity becomes
>>> the national faith, it tends to dominate; once it
>>> dominates, it loses its
>>> self, its mission, and its ability to challenge the
>>> status quo.
>>>
>>> It is this inability to challenge the real status
>>> quo that I find so
>>> disquieting if not disgusting among some
>>> conservative Christians today. It
>>> is so easy to compartmentalize one's life, to say
>>> this, this, and this I'll
>>> let Christianity touch, but not this attitude or
>>> idea. The movie "Breach"
>>> is an example of this. We then have examples like
>>> Wilburforce in "Amazing
>>> Grace" who didn't compartmentalize their attitudes,
>>> but rather let
>>> Christianity challenge all of them.
>>>
>>> I could go on and on about this. I should know, I
>>> was a conservative until
>>> about 10 years ago, when I saw what the conservative
>>> movement was doing to
>>> itself. I know consider myself a Christian
>>> independent; with the emphasis on
>>> Christian, not political party.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Cerebral Palsy List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>> Trisha Cummings
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:24 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe)
>>>
>>> You know Ken,
>>>
>>> The probelm is not that the US isn't a Christian
>>> Nation - it is ask =
>>> any non-Christian - they are a better judge of the
>>> Christianness than =
>>> any Christain - its that it never your kind of
>>> Christian . And you can =
>>> debate that into obliven - since the Council of
>>> Nicae in 325 AD never =
>>> have Christian come up a universal view - hence the
>>> 1500 differents =
>>> versions of Christianity. Several good links about
>>> the Council of Nicea =
>>> are
>>> http://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html
>>> and =
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
>>> also =
>>> http://www.probe.org/content/view/790/91/ These
>>> are good educational =
>>> links - I got over my frothing at the mouth about
>>> Christianity about the =
>>> time I realzed the probelem is not the philosophy
>>> but but the people. I =
>>> just got reamed out for letting Amber read the Bible
>>> as a child by a =
>>> Fundementalist Pagan - I spend much time now -
>>> trying for peace and a =
>>> live and let live idea. So there you have it - a
>>> Pagan defending your =
>>> right to your beliefs - Frankly I would ban religion
>>> but then people =
>>> would just fight over something else. Poor God - his
>>> heart must hurt =
>>> that his children act so silly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Trisha=20
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Cerebral Palsy List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
>>> Of ken barber
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:12 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> you know i am not going to cuss you out mike. your
>>> opinion is as good as anyone else. but, i must tell
>>> you i do not view america as a christian nation. i
>>> view it as a post christian nation. you are right
>>> about it not being christian. i think you are wrong
>>> when you say it never was. i think at one time it
>>> was.
>>> there are lots of things in our national government
>>> that is not christian.=20
>>> Jesus said his kingdom was not earthly and so it is
>>> not, but, the prophets do say that there will one
>>> day
>>> be an earthly kingdom and predicts Jesus to rule
>>> with
>>> a "rod of iron." that tells me he is not ging to put
>>> up with much oposition.=20
>>>
>>> to the non-christians on the list i appologize. if
>>> you'd like, i can discuss theology with mike off
>>> list.
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This one is rhetorical and I don't expect anyone
>>> to
>>>> answer... Since we say
>>>> the U.S. is a CHRISTIAN nation, our leader then
>>>> ultimately has to be Jesus,
>>>> right? What then would Jesus have done in the
>>> wake
>>>> of 9/11, as opposed to
>>>> what actually happened? =20
>>>> =20
>>>> My point is this (and Ken, you can cuss me out if
>>>> you want), our civic
>>>> religion is basically a mishmash, not
>>> Christianity.=20
>>>> Here is how it boils
>>>> down to me. Take one heaping helping of
>>>> nationalism; add two scoops of
>>>> national preservation; add three cloves of self
>>>> righteousness; sprinkle two
>>>> or three Bible verses very, very lightly, and
>>> fold.
>>>> Add theological sayings,
>>>> and fold again. Bake in the hot air of political
>>>> lyrical discourse until
>>>> well done, and enjoy it while blowing bubbles of
>>>> happiness.
>>>> =20
>>>> I know, I'm cynical, but I get so sick and tired
>>> of
>>>> the clich=E9 "America (the
>>>> U.S.) is a Christian Nation." IT NEVER WAS. It
>>> was
>>>> and is a religious
>>>> nation with Christian undertones, but every nation
>>>> is shaped by the faith of
>>>> most of the important citizens. The Christian
>>> faith
>>>> was never meant to be
>>>> the faith of the majority. It is, here, though,
>>>> and we have to put up with
>>>> some anti-Christian ideas from "Christian
>>>> policymakers" in order to live
>>>> here.
>>>> =20
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> =20
>>>> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY
>>>> list, go here:
>>>> =20
>>>>
>>>
>> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy
>>>> =20
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =20
>>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> ____=
>>> ___________
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>>> http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html=20
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Kendall
>
> An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
>
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
> progress
> depends on the unreasonable man.
>
> -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>
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>
>
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