I'll check out Hockenberry's work, Kendall. Does he have supporting
accounts for his claims?
Kyle
-----Original Message-----
From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Kendall D. Corbett
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Obama experience
Kyle, exactly! Cheney is the master of Machiavellianism, IMHO and, also
IMHO, he's the "brains" of the outfit. I'd have been more inclined to
have
gone along with the Iraq war if the strategic importance of it's
placement
had been emphasized, as well as the atrocities perpetrated by Saddam
against
his own people. Don't know if you've read Hockenberry's "Moving
Violations," but he talks about being in Baghdad during and immediately
after Desert Storm, and the human rights abuses he describes were
appalling.
Mag, I don't think Hillary is any more Machivellian than most of the
others
running. As a matter of fact, I think Obama may be the least
Machiavellian,
and as weird as it sounds, I trust him less because of it. My feeling
is
that with a president who puts his or her own interests first, we at
least
know where they'll stand, even if we don't like it. Obama hasn't sold
out,
but I kind of wonder what price will be paid for his soul. But there
I'm
being extremely cynical.
On 1/10/08, Cleveland, Kyle E. <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Kendall,
>
> I don't think Dubya is terribly Machiavellian in and of himself.
Cheney
> and that scoundrel Rumsfeld on the other hand...
>
> Here's a thought about Iraq and Machiavellianism: We went to war on
the
> lamest of "public" excuses. However--and maybe this is the military
man in
> me speaking--we have 125K+ troops in a country that borders three of
the
> four countries having direct involvement in the events of 9/11:
Syria, Iran
> and Saudi Arabia. It makes perfect strategic sense to me.
>
> Kyle
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Cerebral Palsy List on behalf of Kendall D. Corbett
> Sent: Thu 1/10/2008 2:51 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Obama experience
>
>
>
> Machiavelli said "it is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot
be
> both." There are many that say the present administration is the most
> Machiavellian in the history of the US. All politicians seem to
follow
> Machiavelli to an extent, but what of those who consciously try to not
> appear to be Machiavellian? Are they not the most duplicitous of all?
>
> On Jan 10, 2008 5:51 AM, Cleveland, Kyle E. <
> [log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm not so sure it was either passion or self-pity that provoked the
> > tears. I think it may possibly have been a calculated action to
show
> > she's not "calculating". She has a rep for being cold, ya know.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf
> > Of Kathy
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:30 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Obama experience
> >
> > Humph, just because a woman cries, it's a negative thing -- it
wasn't a
> > pity
> > party!
> >
> > (and besides, she won, so it doesn't seem to have hurt her chances
in
> > the
> > caucus.)
> >
> > Kat
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "ken barber" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:19 AM
> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Obama experience
> >
> > > looked like a pity party to me.
> > >
> > > --- Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I didn't see the entire hilary thing, but what I did
> > >> see was not crying! I saw hilary being passionate
> > >> about the issues she says she cares about. There is
> > >> a difference guys!
> > >>
> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > >> Tamar Mag Raine
> > >> [log in to unmask]
> > >> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----
> > >> From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:55:29 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Obama experience
> > >>
> > >> well Virginia, you told me something I did not know
> > >> about LBJ.
> > >> WAR ON POVERTY..LOOKS LIKE POVETY WON!
> > >>
> > >> WATCHING THE RETURNS, RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE
> > >> hILLARY'S DEMISE MIGHT HAVE BEEN EXAGERATED.
> > >>
> > >> sorry i can't seem to keep my fingers off the caps
> > >> lock for some reason.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Virginia Perry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Ken,
> > >> >
> > >> > As I understand it, LBJ's health was a factor. He
> > >> > didn't want the American public to lose another
> > >> > sitting president so soon after Kennedy. One of my
> > >> > sources says LBJ had an actuarial study done in
> > >> 1967
> > >> > to see how long he had to live. In fact, he died
> > >> in
> > >> > January 1973, so his instinct in that was pretty
> > >> > accurate. Of course, his party wasn't very
> > >> > supportive, either, due to all the flak LBJ was
> > >> > taking on Vietnam. I sometimes wonder what he
> > >> could
> > >> > have accomplished if he hadn't been saddled with
> > >> > Vietnam -- if he'd been able to really focus on
> > >> his
> > >> > War on Poverty.
> > >> >
> > >> > But I guess my overall point was that experience
> > >> > shouldn't always be THE deciding factor in an
> > >> > election.> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:03:18 -0700>
> > >> > From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re:
> > >> Obama
> > >> > experience> To: [log in to unmask]> >
> > >> > Virginia, et al,> > Carter ran in '76 as an
> > >> "outside
> > >> > the Beltway" candidate, and relied on his>
> > >> executive
> > >> > experience in Georgia. Reagan ran as an "outside
> > >> the
> > >> > Beltway"> candidate in 1980, and relied on his
> > >> > executive experience as Governor of> California.
> > >> > Clinton ran as an "outside the Beltway" candidate
> > >> in
> > >> > '92, and> relied on his executive experience as
> > >> > governor of Arkansas. Johnson had a> lot of
> > >> > Washington experience, and was vice president
> > >> under
> > >> > Kennedy, which> helped him a lot in his election
> > >> in
> > >> > 1964. It would have been interesting to> see what
> > >> > would have happened if LBJ had run in '68.> On Jan
> > >> > 4, 2008 5:40 PM, Virginia Perry <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> > wrote:> > > Historical note: Nixon won his first
> > >> > term as president at least partly> > because he
> > >> ran
> > >> > as the more experienced candidate (he'd been
> > >> > vice-president> > before). More experience can be
> > >> > better, but it isn't always a guarantee of> >
> > >> > quality
> > >> >
> > >>
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > >> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows
> > >> Live.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012
> > 008
> > >> > -----------------------
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> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
> > ____________
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> > >
> > >
> >
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>
> --
>
>
> Kendall
>
> An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
>
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress
> depends on the unreasonable man.
>
> -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>
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>
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>
--
Kendall
An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
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