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Subject:
From:
Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Cerebral Palsy List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:43:31 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (234 lines)
Thanks, Ken, because this is becoming a circular disagreement.

Kat

On 31 Oct 2006, at 11:16, ken barber wrote:

ok, i'll let yours be the last word.

--- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
>   I didn't say that saying one is wrong is saying
> they are unpatriotic - I am saying the emotional
> response to being told that is the same - you have
> taken it away from actual facts to a personal
> judgement negative judgement at that. My point was
> that people have differences - that doesn't equate
> to being right or wrong. So you kinda miss the
> point. If being right is that important - then Ken
> you are right ( you can always be right - as far as
> I am concerned)I got where you are coming from - and
> I will happy to be different or WRONG - 100% of the
> time. In the end the peace is more important than
> the being right - as far as I am concerned. One Tin
> Soldier Walks Away - Have a Blessed Samhain - Honor
> the Ancestors - and Bobby, and have a Happy
> Halloween.
>
>                                      Trisha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cerebral Palsy List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
> Of ken barber
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: I have a question
>
>
> well, we'll leave it that we have not questioned
> anybody's patriotism and the rest can be however you
> wish to say it. i do not agree with your opinion
> that
> if you think i am wrong is the same thing as
> thinking
> i am unpatriotic or in the same frame of mind.
> patriotism is a motive, i can not see into anybody's
> heart to see a motive. we can have different
> opinions
> on how to accomplish something and have the same
> motive, but you can think that my plan to accomplish
> something will not work even if you know my motive
> is
> right. in that kind of case your are not guestioning
> my motive, but, you can think my plan is the wrong
> plan. and in that case only time would tell.
>
>
> --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Ken,
>>
>>   Having a different opinion does not make us
> wrong.
>> Right and wrong are value judgements and place the
>> "wrong" person in the same frame of mind as the
>> "unpatriotic one". You are not right - we are not
>> wrong - we have differing opinions - different is
>> not wrong. The whole need to right is what gets us
>> in this predictments in the first place - if you
>> just accept others have different experiences and
>> therefore different points from which to view
> things
>> and therefore arrive at different conclusions why
>> does make them wrong? And something can be morally
>> repugnant to us and be okay in your book - from
> your
>> frame of reference - you are totally within your
>> rights to have your view - and we are within our
>> rights to have ours. Within a conversational
> context
>> we can discuss and share our views, you are not
>> going to change your mind and we proabably not
> going
>> to change ours. The other day I tried to share my
>> experiences in the Christian Church School and you
>> called it another anti Christian rant - yet I was
>> telling you - I got where they are coming from,
> and
>> understand their point of view - I still don't buy
>> into it - but I also understand they can no more
>> understand anything I might have to say - becuase
> of
>> the point from which they view things, therefore I
>> actaully learned something really valuable - don't
>> even bother - respect where they are coming from
> and
>> move on. It ends up not about being right or wrong
>> but about respecting the other guy. My idea of
>> Christian - ummmmm well, was not complete and held
>> folks to really high standards and left out the
>> "people" aspect. The people aspect is what is
> tough
>> in life - I knew when I was 6 and my Mom ask how
> my
>> day went and I said - I got math, I got spelling
> but
>> this people to people stuff was really hard. Still
>> is.
>>
>>                                      Trisha
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cerebral Palsy List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
>> Of ken barber
>> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:32 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: I have a question
>>
>>
>> no you did not question it. if you thought i
>> intended
>> to say that i was misunderstood. actually i think
>> the
>> implication was that i had questioned it.
>>   i was earlier disagreeing with what i thought
> was
>> you saying that the questioning was done to get
> him
>> off message. i said that was a 180 on reality.
>>
>>    i really do not think anybody on this list
>> questions the others patriotism. i do not think
>> there
>> is one person on this list who is unpatriotic. i
>> think
>> many of you are wrong, but, that entirely
> different.
>>
>>
>> i said and do believe that many times the question
>> is
>> brought up when one has exausted theirselves of
>> anything else to say. just like the charges of
>> racism,
>> nigotry, and hate speech is a last effort to
> silence
>> an opponent when one has run out of anything
>> significant to use. i see it more off list than
> the
>> rare occasions i think these ploys are used.
>>
>> --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>>
>>>   I didn't question Mike's patriotism, nor
> anyone
>>> else's. his question was I thought - Quote Why
> is
>> it
>>> that one's patriotism is called into question
> when
>>> one questions or disagrees with the status quo
>> now?
>>> I generic question - I simply clarified that if
>> some
>>> people - when they don't get their point across
> or
>>> you can still question their ideas - go for the
>>> personal jugular - these days that would be
>>> patriotism. Its mean they not you - the accuser
> of
>>> lack of patriotism has run out of logic and must
>> now
>>> resort to emotion and guilt.
>>>
>>>
>
>>
>>> Trisha
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Cerebral Palsy List on behalf of ken
> barber
>>> Sent: Mon 10/30/2006 7:49 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: I have a question
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i am saying that as far as i know, there was
>> nothing
>>> said about patritism in either direction until
>> mike
>>> brought up the question and you imediately
> joined
>> in
>>> with a standard support statement.
>>>
>>> at that point my thoughts were that the debate
> was
>>> over because you guys had nothing left to say. i
>>> have
>>> grown to vew the patritism being questioned as a
>>> ploy
>
=== message truncated ===




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