Kendall,
There are tons of good Mormon people. But Section 132 of the D & C
(Doctrine and Covenants) the book the Mormons use to support their
faith says any man may espouse ten virgins but that if a woman
espouse another she shall be destroyed. This is a tenet of both the
regular LDS and the FLDS. This doctrine has never been changed and
the abusive men (and not all are) use this doctrine to support their abuse.
We have tried to get Hatch involved for years to help us free the
people inside polygamy and to enforce the law. We have reported tons
of serious crimes and he has done nothing but claim how many good
polygamists he knows. When the story of how many died as a result of
this indifference is known, he is guilty in my opinion.
The LDS Church through Senator Hatch and others in power would like
to see polygamy overturned so they can re institute it as part of
their faith that claims men will inherit their own planets in heaven
and become gods themselves with as many wives as they desire. (Call
me a crazy person with a lack of respect for faith but this is so
WACKY it's difficult to understand how thinking people could buy this
"philosophy"). This is not an open political move but Mormons in
power constantly send up trial balloons like the statement in your
post. Hatch's statements are part of that move.
You would think any responsible person who had the knowledge that
people have disappeared and are missing, along with the grossly high
infant and death rate in there, the unmarked graves, lack of
education, freedom of movement, trafficking of young girls across
state and international lines, etc would call for an investigation,
not be saying oh yes it could be overturned.
Flora reported her mother as one of the disappeared and she has a
sister who has also not been seen. They claim Flora's mother does not
want to see her. However she turned in a letter to law enforcement
from her mother that was smuggled out saying differently. Her mother
cannot even mail a letter to her from inside that compound because
the people working in the Post Office are polygamists enforcing the
Prophets will. The priesthood leaders (another name for criminal
gang) have let Flora know over the years that because of her activism
her mother is suffering at their hands. They have shot at Flora who
wears a bullet proof vest. Does this sound like a benign religious
group to you? One US Senators should support?
Every self respecting law abiding Mormon has a bigger duty IMHO to do
something about this than the rest of the public because they know
the history, the beliefs and the doctrine.. Flora recently revisited
the grave sites and said how many new ones there are. There are
credible stories Jeffs built a crematorium in the temple in Texas,
yet law enforcement will not search that compound despite the fact we
have reported others missing.
Imagine being born inside there. You are not allowed to go to school,
only hear the "Prophets" words. You have no health care because it is
gods will that you were born that way. They blame it on the mothers
lack of righteousness when she has a deformed child rather than
generations of incest all mandated as a religious right/rite. Brigham
Young preached uncles should marry nieces. This is a church founded
on incest and sexual abuse of girls. Joseph Smith the founder married
84 women, some already married, and some still children, some mother
and daughter pairs, a practice still common inside polygamy. Mormons
today have to ignore all of these facts to believe Joseph Smith was a
Prophet of GOD.
The American pubic was horrified by early Mormon practices not
because they were discriminating against one religion but because of
the practices of these early Mormons. Before the railroad got to Utah
there was no escape. Women risked their lives and were killed trying
to get the authorities to listen to their stories and this is why
polygamy was outlawed, not as the Mormons are so fond of claiming
because they were discriminated against. I only wish todays public
were as informed as yesterdays was.
I am attacking the practices of this church. Freedom of religion
gives the right to believe anything you want but it does not give the
right to practice anything you want.
The pertinent verse are 61 to 64 and here is the link to the belief
that it is ok to destroy women and marry 10 virgins:
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/section132.htm
I work on the civil suits on behalf of the people abused by churches.
There is a huge difference in the Catholic response to this problem
and the Mormon one. The Catholic people have a way to influence their
leaders. It is not an authoritarian church. Catholics have been very
clear that they want something done to stop the abuse of children.
The Catholic leaders in historic settlements with victims have
publicly apologized for the pain and trauma they have caused. They
have instituted programs to stop the abuse. In my opinion the
Catholic response has been a Christian one and they have stepped up
to the plate to solve this problem. I only wish the news media would
start contrasting their loving and responsible response towards
victims with the one the Mormons have given.
The Mormon response has been to try and stop the civil suits through
legal or quasi legal means and to settle them with quash orders so
the public does not know the extent of the abuse inside Mormonism. I
have worked on other church suits as well but the LDS abusers are the
sickest, worst dogs I have ever encountered.The facts are horrifying
compared to the Catholic abusers. I am not going to mention some of
them here because people who don't know what happens to children
can't emotionally handle the facts. I can barely handle them and am
often sad and grieving from what I know. l am upset by this church
because I have seen the facts of their victimization and their
response. I have been doing this work for over twenty five years,
long before the public knew the churches had a problem.
I am angry because of what I know and the lack of responsible
response by law enforcement and the AG's. I am angry because my own
family members were victims of this folly. The United Nations has
mandated that polygamy is an inherent violation of womens and
childrens' rights. There is world wide agreement on this point.
Utahns lag behind because of their belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet of god.
The link you sent is by a BYU teacher and you must be a card carrying
Mormon and not write the true history to keep your position at BYU.
Embry, the author, is what we call an historical apologist. For
another viewpoint go to www.utlm.org
These folks have been sued by the LDS Church to try and stop them
from publishing the truth but the LDS have not prevailed in these
attempts to stop free speech.
The media often claims because of LDS pressure that the LDS are not
polygamists and these groups are not Mormon fundamentalists. That is
a lie. These groups are offshoots of the LDS and they all descend
from the same pioneers. Mitt Romneys grandparents were polygamist. My
great grandparents were. My immediate family stopped the practice and
so did his. We both have relatives that still practice it. The
difference is I want to free mine and turn those compounds into free
societies and he wants to distance himself from them so he can run
for President.
t 07:51 AM 9/7/2006, you wrote:
>Linda and others,
>
>Here's a link to one history of polygamy within the LDS Church. It
>specifically mentions the polygamist sect in Hilldale UT and Colorado
>City, AZ.
>
>http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/p/POLYGAMY.html
>
>Transcript of an interview with Orrin Hatch discussing polygamy.
>
>http://www.polygamyinfo.com/media%20plyg%2051%20trib.htm
>
>
>As I read the interview, Senator Hatch is saying the current laws and
>Supreme Court decisions regarding polygamy could be overturned on
>Constitutional grounds, not that he supports the practice. The risk of
>this are higher, IMHO, with the current conservative bent of the Supreme
>Court.
>
>Try as I might, I can not find a single site _sponsored_ by Senator
>Hatch where he supports polygamy.
>
>
>Section from the Utah Constitution specifically forbidding polygamy:
>
>Article XXIV, Section 2. [Territorial laws continued.]
> All laws of the Territory of Utah now in force, not repugnant to
>this Constitution, shall remain in force until they expire by their own
>limitations, or are altered or repealed by the Legislature. The act of
>the Governor and Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Utah,
>entitled, "An Act to punish polygamy and other kindred offenses,"
>approved February 4th, A.D. 1892, in so far as the same defines and
>imposes penalties for polygamy, is hereby declared to be in force in the
>State of Utah.
>
>Linda, the question I asked remains from when you brought this up the
>last time:
>
>"Why is it OK to attack a specific faith on the list, but apparently not
>OK to say things _in support of_ a specific faith, or to attack other
>faiths?"
>
>
>Kendall=20
>
>An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
>
>The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
>persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
>progress depends on the unreasonable man.
>
>-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Walker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:55 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [C-PALSY] Polygamy Story a rant
>
>Kendall,
>The LDS in my opinion are guilty as sin for allowing this to go on=20
>for so long. Renouncing something with one face while you turn your=20
>back on the injustice and watch it proliferate in that church state=20
>Utah is not ok with me. We've been trying to get the LDS to pay=20
>attention to this for years and they swept it under the rug as long=20
>as they could. Many died as a result of their self righteous=20
>indifference. What did any one of your friends ever do to stop it?=20
>See what I mean. I am mad as hell at the LDS and especially those in=20
>positions to have done something. It's been a long hard road waking=20
>them up. Now all they can do is say it's not us. Sorry, not good=20
>enough. It is people from their own families who continued the=20
>practice. Nearly all old time Mormons come from polygamy including=20
>Senator Hatch who has pro polygamy stuff on his web site. You can't
>believe how hard it's been to wake up the LDS. Nonetheless also=20
>really happy he is caught and now the FBI needs to charge him up.=20
>Before they fenced off the graveyard in there, I documented that over=20
>50% of the graves were children under 10 and 58 graves were entirely=20
>unmarked. It is a killing field in there and the public does not know=20
>how really grievous it is yet but they will.
>Imagine if the Army came across 58 unmarked baby graves, little=20
>mounds in the sand in Iraq. There would be a huge outcry but we have=20
>had a really difficult time getting people to listen. The FBI made=20
>fun of Flora and I when we turned in our evidence to them. They=20
>wanted nothing to do with it but we finally forced the issue. A few=20
>activists ...
>
>At 08:00 AM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
> >Linda,
> >
> >Really glad they caught this scum-bag! Out here in Wyoming and Utah, =
>=3D
> >it's been _big_ news, and my Mormon friends are uniformly happy that =
>=3D
> >he's been caught, as too many people don't differentiate between the =
>=3D
> >FLDS sect that Jeffs ran (runs), and the LDS Church, which renounced =
>=3D
> >polygamy in the 1890's.
> >
> >Kendall=3D20
> >
> >An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
> >
> >The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one =
>=3D
> >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all =3D
> >progress depends on the unreasonable man.
> >
> >-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Mary Katherine Powers [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=3D20
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:15 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [C-PALSY] Polygamy Story
> >
> >I'm really glad that you've done such great work! that's wonderful. I
>=3D
> >know it's extremely frustrating, though.
> >=3D20
> >I am slowly working on becoming active in the child abuse =3D
> >prevention/recovery field myself. So far all I've managed to do is =3D
> >donate to RAINN and do some volunteer work for them. I also try to
>give =3D
> >information on trauma to people who seem to need it. It is so
>important =3D
> >to work in this field because there are so many awful things that go
>on, =3D
> >and "the system" is often not helpful (to put it mildly). =3D20
> >=3D20
> >It sounds like you've been active for a long time and done a lot of =3D
> >really good things. I'll check out your website.
> >=3D20
> >Mary Katherine=3D20
> >=3D20
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [log in to unmask]
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Sent: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 6:21 AM
> >Subject: Re: Polygamy Story
> >
> >
> >Kudos on your work, Linda! You did made a reference to the polygamy
>cult =3D
> >one time when you said how the FBI couldn't catch the polygamist with a
>=3D
> >gaggle of teenaged girls in long skirts and bonnets. I understand he
>was =3D
> >only with a few people when he was caught in a traffic stop. I think =
>=3D
> >life on the run take so much planning and effort just to stay under the
>=3D
> >radar, that it's the little things that trip up the fugitives.=3D20
> >=3D20
> >Kat=3DCE=3D20
> >=3D20
> >On 6 Sep 2006, at 03:35, Linda Walker wrote:=3D20
> >=3D20
> >Hello Everyone:=3D20
> >=3D20
> >I've never brought this up on list but it seems ok to talk about things
>=3D
> >other than CP and this issue, along with helping Case is a big part of
>=3D
> >my life.=3D20
> >Don't know if anyone is watching the polygamy story on CNN and Larry =
>=3D
> >King, among other shows. Just letting you know that it is part of my =
>=3D
> >civil and human rights work I have been doing for years. I was the
>first =3D
> >person on the web ranting about this and Flora Jessop, a true hero, is
>=3D
> >the spokesperson for this issue from Child Protection Project, a group
>I =3D
> >founded. Case has met Flora and seen her on tv although his parents =3D
> >won't let him watch most of it and I agree with that but he knows his =
>=3D
> >Nana fights the bad guys.=3D20
> >I know it is not CP related except that so many polygamy kids are =3D
> >subject to difficult births, have disabilities, and not getting the =3D
> >health care they need. It is a very sad story and we have not broken
>all =3D
> >the elements of it yet. My non profit is www.childpro.org.=3D20
> >I am pretty proud of this life long work because now that the full
>story =3D
> >is getting out people (including my own adult children) have stopped =
>=3D
> >calling me a crazy exaggerator. Now it's, "Mom, I heard your story on =
>=3D
> >public radio or the like." The fact is it is impossible to exaggerate =
>=3D
> >how bad it is in there. Even the newscasters are having trouble
>wrapping =3D
> >their minds around it. So why can we implement democracy in Afghanistan
>=3D
> >and save the women behind the veil there but we can do nothing to stop
>=3D
> >this in our own country? Many things disgust me but none as much as =3D
> >this.=3D20
> >Larry King was supposed to do a show on this tomorrow but he is doing =
>=3D
> >Tom Cruise baby pictures instead! Wow, that's more newsworthy I guess
>in =3D
> >this news as entertainment industry. The show will run eventually. It's
>=3D
> >on the documentary Banking on Heaven about polygamy.=3D20
> >=3D20
> >All the best to everyone,=3D20
> >=3D20
> >Linda=3D20
> >=3D20
> >-----------------------=3D20
> >=3D20
> >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=3D20
> >=3D20
> >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=3D20
> >=3D20
> >-----------------------=3D20
> >=3D20
> >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=3D20
> >=3D20
> >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=3D20
> >_______________________________________________________________________
>_
> >Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email =
>=3D
> >and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
> >
> >-----------------------
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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>
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>
>To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
>
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>
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>
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