I see what you're getting at, Bob, but I do see practical limitations,
namely that such cases that occurred so long ago might be hard to
prosecute.  Also you might run up against what was perceived as the
widely-accepted paternal relationship between a medical professional and
patents.  You might be more successful with more recent cases.

Also consider the fact that many of the principals in such cases are no
longer living, unless you found written evidence, which I'm not sure would
be admissible.  I do hope you succeed though, because fear of PTs and other
therapists can be hard to overcome (as I can attest with my fear of
dentists).

Kat

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Robert Segalman Ph.D <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Nalin,
> I assume that the abuse is wide and is simply not brought to people's
> attention because of (A) the victims have communication difficulties,  (B)
> it is not recognized as abuse because it can be very subtle and the
> perpetrators do not realize that they are being abusive.
>
> Tamar,
> You are correct that the abuse would be difficult to prosecute as a class
> action suit because so many jurisdictions are involved.  We just need to
> wait and collect complaints until we get enough of them from one
> jurisdiction to proceed with a class action suit.  Another approach would be
> to find and prosecute a single case and hope that prosecutors in other
> jurisdictions will follow suit.
>
> The goal of efforts in this situation might be more productively focused on
> education rather than prosecution.  I often see a bossiness and a lack of
> respect for patients by PTs.  My strongest memories of abuse were as a small
> child in the 1940's.  The only known methods of treating tight CP muscles
> was a painful stretching which in my case occurred three times a week for an
> hour from the age of 3 until age 18.  My other experience in which I
> perceived abuse was several times a week in my teens from unintended
> physical contact with women physical therapists at a time when I was also
> experiencing the typical very active teenage glands.  Such physical contact
> exacerbated the exclusion and social isolation that I felt as the only
> person with a disability in high school. Some of what I experienced could be
> avoided by assigning male PTs to high school boys.  It would be good if we
> could educate the professionals to adopt such assignment as part of the code
> of ethics.
>
> Bob Segalman,  Ph. D.
>
>
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:15:01 +0530
> From:    Nalin Kumar <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Hi from India
>
> Hi Robert!
>
> Good Morning !!!
> Let me introduce you. I am Nalin Kumar a Physical Therapist from India.I
> have been working with children and adults with special needs for past
> 3years. I hope we both will learn togther from each other.
>
> Is it a global abuse that you are looking into? or just in US?
>
> It would be nice to know if I may know about you all too.More details about
> me you can see me on my blog
> www.physionalin.blogspot.com
>
>
> Thanks
> Nalin
>
>
>
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:23:17 -0800
> From:    Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: abuses?
>
> Robert, how can there be a class action lawsuit if the pt, st, ot were in
> different locations, working at different schools, clinics, hospitals?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tamar
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
>
> Retired Commissioner, Oakland, MCPD
>
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:41:18 -0500
> From:    Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: abuses?
>
> Mag,
>
> The success of winning a class action suit depends on the preponderance of
> cases and how much documentation each litigant can provide towards the
> case.  It's not like a criminal case which is focused on one person or one
> crime and the chances of winning lies in the quality of the evidence.
>
> So there is no geographic limitation for a class action suit, except, I
> believe, that it be within the US.  I'm not familiar with the international
> law aspect of such a legal action, unless one were to attempt to file a
> violation of human rights with the UN's World Court at The Hague. I'm sure
> a
> lawyer can answer that question much much better than I.
>
> Personally speaking the only abuse I got at the hands of a PT was a violent
> shaking of my arm to "loosen" it up and as I complained about it, I was
> assigned to another PT even though this left me with a lingering fear of
> :PTs.  It all happened 50 years ago so any eyewitnesses are long gone.
>
> Kat
>
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:24 -0500
> From:    "Michael H. Collis" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: abuses?
>
> That, too, but the real issue is the statute of limitations.  Most of the
> therapists back then were in their thirties. They are now in their 80's.
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:24 -0500
> From:    "Michael H. Collis" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Abuse?
>
> Robert, what about the statute of limitations?
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:10:01 -0500
> From:    Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: abuses?
>
> Yeah if a defendant is in their 80s, how are they giong to be able to
> afford
> to pay damages awarded?  I think this would be much more successful with
> more recent cases.
>
> Kat
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Michael H. Collis <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > That, too, but the real issue is the statute of limitations.  Most of the
> > therapists back then were in their thirties. They are now in their 80's.
> >
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:52:30 -0500
> From:    Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Hi from India
>
> KJP,
>
> 1) Have you filed a complaint with the housing office?
> 2) Have you filed a complaint with your local social services?
> 3) Have you filed a complaint wth the police department?  If what you say
> is
> true, that's grounds for assualt and battery.  Since you are of legal age,
> you should be able to do this.  If you are under guardianship, your
> guardian
> should do it for you.
>
> Kat
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:23:09 -0600
> From:    Kathy Pink <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Hi from India
>
> I filed it with the home, and my caseworker.  I didn't file with the
> police.  She is better now.
>
>
>
> Kathy Jo Pink
> E-mail addresses: [log in to unmask] , [log in to unmask], and
> [log in to unmask]
>
> MSN/HotMail IM: [log in to unmask]
>
> Pogo Nickname : perkypinkypink
>
> Pretty sure that in order to have a class action you'd have to have a
> single person or institution responsible for the injury / problem...
>
> --
> Peter Hunsberger
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:26:52 -0600
> From:    Peter Hunsberger <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: abuses?
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:41 AM, Kathleen Salkin <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Mag,
> >
> > The success of winning a class action suit depends on the preponderance
> of
> > cases and how much documentation each litigant can provide towards the
> > case.  It's not like a criminal case which is focused on one person or
> one
> > crime and the chances of winning lies in the quality of the evidence.
> >
>
> So who's going to be expected to pay the damages in such a suit?  I
> don't see how you could claim joint culpability unless you can prove
> some kind of collusion?
>
> --
> Peter Hunsberger
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:35:21 -0800
> From:    Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: abuses?
>
> So, what does a class action suit do at this point? it's not like a
> consumer class action like blogtoolkit that I'm considering joining.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tamar
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
>
> Retired Commissioner, Oakland, MCPD
>
>
>
>
>
> Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:24:49 -0800
> From:    Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Abuse?
>
>  I am not an attorney and this should not be construed as legal
> advice because it is not. I do not give legal advice. I work in this
> aspect of civil law and usually what happens is there are many
> individual suits and then if enough of them add up with good results
> (high monetary damages)  they may consider a class action but I think
> and this should be checked out more by people interested in this....
> I think there would have to be a deep pocket entity like the Catholic
> or LDS Church to sue ad these cases cost a fortune to bring. And even
> with all those church abuse suits with many plaintiffs they usually
> do not go class action. I think it would have to be something like a
> school taught the therapists to harm the children in some way and
> that many suffered as a result. If one therapist is particularly bad
> isn't there a place to report them for violation of their license.
> Robert may know much more about this than I do but class action is
> usually not done because of the costs. First thing civil attorneys
> usually look at. In many states there is NO statute of limitation on
> sexual abuse so I would focus on that but that is state by state and
> in many states there is no possibility of recovery. Even though I
> agree that emotional and physical is just as damaging the courts do
> not look at it the same way yet. Still much work to be done to change
> the law in this field.
> One important aspect of this is that the entity knew and did nothing.
> In our cases the church promoted and moved the abusers. If the entity
> took action once they found out then there is usually no case.
> Unfortunately for the church victims the churches took steps to cover
> it up. I can imagine a scenario where a big entity had 1000
> therapists working and chose to move the therapist to a different
> location if they were reported rather than removing them but I doubt
> this is how it happened. All the therapists we used for Case were
> sort of in their own practice but one was at a hospital. Class action
> seems a stretch to me. Just my opinion though. There is recovery from
> malpractice insurance and that may be a better way to go.
> Other than that gathering stories and publicizing the results would be
> good.
> I still read the list sporadically but don't contribute much. I love
> this list though and welcome to the newcomers.
>
> All the best to you guys,
> Linda
> Case's nana.
>
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