DV is not new! it's ALWAYS existed, but it's only the last couple decades we knew how much it messes kids up. 
 
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http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
Tamar Mag Raine
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www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
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----- Original Message ----
From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 7:05:00 PM
Subject: Re: email was not working on spanking

i'll let those reading the post(above 35 years old)
decide if they believe it is true or not. 

--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> It is not lack of spanking that has brought on the
> problems we are 
> seeing now. It is many things that are rapidly
> changing in society.
> 
> At 08:47 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
> >  historically  it has worked quite well. i can
> see
> >more people who it has worked with than those it
> has
> >not worked with. lack of it in the past 30-40 years
> >has brought on more violence than ever before.
> >  i will not sit by and have average parents who
> swat
> >an unruly child on the bottom as sex abusers and
> >brutalizers. i'll point up the deceptive tactic
> every
> >time i see it used.
> >  you are probably right in that it does not
> further
> >"your" goals. but then again i and many other
> parents
> >have not made it your responsibility to raise our
> >children. nor do we want the role taken by the
> >government.
> >  actually finding anything other than links (many
> >just ads) is pretty hard on what came up when i
> >clicked nospank.org
> >. i am happy that you are going to give me
> permission
> >to disagree.
> >
> >--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Ken we have agreed to disagree before and I am
> not
> > > surprised you do
> > > not agree. I would like to see laws passed
> making it
> > > a crime to
> > > punish children in this manner. I am against
> > > corporal punishment. It
> > > does not work. It does not further the goals I
> have
> > > for society.  I
> > > actually threw it out as a trial balloon to see
> what
> > > you guys
> > > thought. I didn't say ALL, I said most. If I
> said
> > > all I misstate I am
> > > almost always careful to use qualifying words
> > > especially when
> > > throwing out controversial subjects. I agree
> with
> > > Alice Miller and
> > > nospank.org if you do not that is fine.
> > >
> > > At 01:41 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
> > > >i saw different tatics that i have saw before.
> > > >
> > > >1st: all civilize nations have aggreed with
> your
> > > >position. implication nations and people who do
> not
> > > >are "uncivilized." intimidation tactic since no
> one
> > > >wants to be seen as "uncivilized."
> > > >
> > > >2. we bring up spanking or corprell punishment
> and
> > > >themn we start siting studies on sexual abuse
> and
> > > on
> > > >"brutalizing children.
> > > >  no one would want to support sexually abusing
> > > >children or bruatalizing children. impress
> some,
> > > >intimidate the rest.
> > > >
> > > >but here comes someone with brass enough to say
> > > >studies on sexual abuse are not relavant to
> average
> > > >parents spanking a average kid nor a average
> school
> > > >teacher "applying the board of education to the
> > > seat
> > > >of learning" nor studies of brualizing children
> > > being
> > > >relavant to the average spanking or paddling. 
> it
> > > >sorta neutralize the tactics.
> > > >
> > > >how should it be read linda?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It does not sound like you read it.
> > > > >
> > > > > At 07:06 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
> > > > > >spanking and sexual abuse are not =.
> spanking
> > > and
> > > > > >brutalizing are not =. so your studies
> quoting
> > > is
> > > > > >apples to oranges. sorry it don't sell
> here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > That was a good school experience and
> mine
> > > was
> > > > > > > similar altho it was
> > > > > > > in  a city and altho my family did not
> have
> > > much
> > > > > > > money most of the
> > > > > > > kids were from well heeled families. I
> think
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > of my age (62)
> > > > > > > there were no discipline problems
> either. We
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > taught and we
> > > > > > > learned. To my knowledge no one was ever
> > > spanked
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > paddled.
> > > > > > > Studies show paddling is bad for a
> child's
> > > self
> > > > > > > esteem and I agree
> > > > > > > with www.nospank.org  that passing laws
> > > against
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > are best. Most
> > > > > > > civilized countries have done so, the US
> has
> > > > > not. A
> > > > > > > highlight of my
> > > > > > > life was giving an address in NY that
> Alice
> > > > > Miller
> > > > > > > was supposed to
> > > > > > > give but she could not make it in from
> > > > > Switzerland.
> > > > > > > She is considered
> > > > > > > the worlds foremost child psychologist,
> one
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > first to deal with
> > > > > > > children's issues.
> > > > > > > I've worked cases in states where
> spanking
> > > is
> > > > > > > allowed and they killed
> > > > > > > a kid years ago, and covered it up,
> others
> > > were
> > > > > > > brutally beaten.
> > > > > > > Studies also show  that the brain
> develops
> > > > > > > differently when kids are
> > > > > > > brutalized at home or in school or
> sexually
> > > > > abused.
> > > > > > > Physical and
> > > > > > > sexual violence towards children often
> goes
> > > hand
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > hand. So if you
> > > > > > > teach corporal punishment is wrong it
> sets a
> > > > > > > different standard, a
> > > > > > > humane and compassionate one.
> > > > > > > And check out Moses Lake WA if you think
> > > rural
> > > > > kids
> > > > > > > live good
> > > > > > > citizenship cause I've worked cases
> where
> > > the
> > > > > murder
> > > > > > > rate (kid on kid
> > > > > > > and adult to kid) in rural areas is off
> the
> > > > > charts.
> > > > > > > Many murders in
> > > > > > > farm areas are covered up as farm
> accidents
> > > or
> > > > > > > simply accepted by
> > > > > > > authorities as accidents when they are
> not.
> 
=== message truncated ===


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