On Sunday 25 March 2007 21:56, ken barber wrote:
> some of the circumstances that one has is accidental
> and under no ones control while some of the
> circumsstances that one finds themselves in are no
> accidents, but rather a result of choices made. 

Some "choices" are forced...

> ie: 
> your education did not just happen. you chose to stay
> in school and so on. so yes, i agree that you do help
> some of the less fortunate, however those that got
> where they are by their own choices should be helped
> to correct the results of their choices and get them
> back on the road to self sufficency in as much as they
> want to better themselves. i find myself with no dudy
> to help someone who shows no desire to be helped to
> get to the point that they no longer neeed help. 

You are trying to make a distinction between "Deserving" and "Undeserving" 
poor, a very Victorian ethic.

> i 
> feel a duty to help people who are genuinely in need
> and have unforunate circumstances that prohibit them
> from making it on their own. we in america are not
> supposed to have class separations. but don't fool
> yourself, it is there.

If someone is in need then I'm happy for my tax pounds to help them, it does 
not matter how they got into that position. My only beef on tax is that it 
should be "fair", and to be fair it should be based on our income. If the 
govt take 40% of my income, ok, but please also take 40% of the £12,000,000 
bonus the chap upstairs got last month (in fact take all of it - he's an 
idiot - but that wouldn't be fair!!).

>    how much of ones wealth is enough to put pack into
> society? half? 75%?

Well, if you include indirect as well as direct taxation, I pay well over half 
my income as tax. In some European countries income over £100,000 are taxed 
at 99%.

> what did you think of the pre-bate idea in the fair
> tax proposal?

I think you know. ;-)

Cheers

Deri


> --- Deri James <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > On Sunday 25 March 2007 16:41, ken barber wrote:
> > > although i do think no tax at all is better.
> > >
> > > why should distributing wealth be one of the
> >
> > purposes
> >
> > > of taxes?
> > > i agree that it is, but why should it be?
> >
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > Is it not a duty (as a member of the human race) to
> > consider "others" as well
> > as ourselves? (I know you will agree). ;-)
> >
> > The fact I have a comfortable life has very little
> > to do with whatever meagre
> > talents I may have been born with, and an awful lot
> > to do with
> > the "circumstances" of my life, i.e. my upbringing,
> > education, family wealth
> > & influence ("class" as this is the UK!!), health,
> > and serendipitous
> > opportunities. All things over which I had very
> > little control.
> >
> > Just as it would be false for me to claim much
> > credit for my wealth, equally,
> > someone with a much less comfortable life should not
> > be "blamed" for that
> > fact.
> >
> > Given that too great an inequality in society is
> > inevitably destructive,
> > leading either to social unrest (crime, revolution,
> > war), or loss of freedoms
> > (as the State attempts to quell social unrest), a
> > healthy society should
> > ensure the gap between rich and poor is kept at an
> > equitable balance. Direct
> > taxation of wealth and high public spending on
> > education, health, and
> > welfare, is the most efficient way to redistribute
> > this wealth.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Deri
> >
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