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Subject:
From:
Dan Lane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
The "hissen at the silence" listserv ....
Date:
Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:57:58 -0400
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John, The Society for Industrial Archaeology is having their annual meeting at Drew University on November 2nd.  There will be talks on a variety of subjects, but most pertinent seem to be 'The Brownstone Quarrying Industry in New Jersey,' and 'American Aqueducts.'  I am not a PTN member, but some of this stuff seems like it may be of interest.  Let me know if you want the low-down on either or any of the talks for your newsletter as I will be attending.  

-=-Dan Lane

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
From:    john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PTNEWS

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The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter.  I am working
on Vol 1. #2.  I am looking for information as shown in the outline.  If
you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.

First; Front Page = Interest article    (750 - 1000)
I need an interest article

        Recent IPTW
                I need reflections on IPTW

  Membership Activity           Letters from members or others (500 words)

        News about members

Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)

Receiving awards (35 t0 75)

Preservation Trades News
        I need information in this area
        Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
        Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
        Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
         Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
   Employment opportunities (50-100)
Position available
Positions sought
Volunteer opportunitie

-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:01 AM
To: Recipients of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS digests
Subject: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002
(#2002-283)


There are 11 messages totalling 575 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Stained Glass
  2. Winter?
  3. Lanai (2)
  4. Why is everybody always criticizing...
  5. Silkscreened Stained Glass (4)
  6. cork floors
  7. PTNEWS

--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 08:48:40 -0400
From:    "Ilene R. Tyler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stained Glass

Stained Glass is NOT painted with paints or inks, it's "painted" with
glass that is fused in an oven.  The painting is permanent;  you cannot
scrape off stained glass painting.  Poorly adhered, usually poorly
fired, painting scrapes off.  The pattern is applied with a brush or
with a stencil, and there is no fixer other than heat.  It also cannot
be refired to apply more painting or to repair existing failing
painting.  Repairs could consider adding a clear piece with the restored
painting fired onto it, then laminated over the original piece inserted
into the lead cames.  This is complicated and should be done in a shop
and under the supervision of a stained glass conservator.  Depending on
your area, I might be able to recommend someone.  Many of you may know
Art Femenella, New Jersey;  he is a good resource for exacting repairs.
We've encountered this similar problem on windows, and there are number
of decisions to determine whether the "painting" should be conserved in
context with the entire project.  More later...


QUINN EVANS | ARCHITECTS

Ilene R. Tyler, FAIA



Date:    Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:53:56 -0400
From:    "Robert J. Cagnetta" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass

We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a
wash of color in some parts of the design.  We can see the "movement" in
the pattern that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape
off.  Is there a "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it?
And are the inks still available?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:16:56 -0500
From:    John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Winter?

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Not that anyone keeps track of developments out this way...but it is
snowing.  It is sticking.  It is covering roofs and the ground.  It was
predicted that the UP would get a foot of the stuff last night.  Don't
know if it happened or not.  Pretty normal up there I suppose.  And I am
not in principal opposed to early snow.  But this year I would just as
soon this snow wasn't still on the ground in April.

Of course our Canadian bretheren have already laid in the firewood,
stocked the storage locker and settled in with a pile of good books to
read this winter.

-jc

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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:13:24 -0400
From:    John Leeke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Lanai

Spencer:

I noticed your Hawaii address and thought you might have something to offer
on this. I am working on a new Preservation Brief on the subject of porch
preservation for the National Park Service. Could you help me define what a
"lanai" is and help me find a good example of one, perhaps on one of the
older buildings there in Hawaii?

John Leeke

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:46:12 EDT
From:    Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Why is everybody always criticizing...

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In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:


>
> >> > I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
>> > two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
>>
>> Some would consider that a blessing
>
>

What, and not get to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself?

 Might as well have someone else pick your dog.  Or your nose.  But not your
dog's nose.

Ralph

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/18/02 10:43:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt; I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last <BR>
&gt; two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong? <BR>
<BR>
Some would consider that a blessing</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">What, and not get to separate the wheat from the chaff yourself? <BR>
<BR>
 Might as well have someone else pick your dog.&nbsp; Or your nose.&nbsp; But not your dog's nose.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph</FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:59:17 EDT
From:    Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass

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In a message dated 10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:

Rob,

> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing.  I
> believe this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement. Could
> this be original? I would say so. It lies ove a unremarkable face nailed T&
> G floor, which now people like this old subfloor. Yeah, well, there are
> also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off common brick; onee would
> hope it's don less nowadays than it used to be, but most of the real stuff
> has probably been "adaptively reused" away by now. These are among the
> wonders of the modern world-- stuff They thought was shit, We think is
> gold.Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard.  I tried varnishing
> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City.
> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well
> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.
> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be exposed to
> polite society.
>
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be sure
> that the nails are stainless steel. I should think it would be be better
> not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it with a
> stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may disagree.
> Less infection.
>

Ralph




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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/02 9:48:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<B>Rob,<BR>
</B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing.&nbsp; <B>I believe this was standard in the olden days; worked as reinforcement. </B>Could<BR>
this be original? <B>I would say so.</B> It lies ove a unremarkable face nailed T&amp;G floor, which now people like this old subfloor. <B>Yeah, well, there are also the jerks who tear ornamental plaster off common brick; onee would hope it's don less nowadays than it used to be, but most of the real stuff has probably been "adaptively reused" away by now.</B> <B>These are among the wonders of the modern world-- stuff They thought was shit, We think is gold.</B>Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard.&nbsp; <B>I tried varnishing particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City.&nbsp; It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well once it got wet. </B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.&nbsp; <B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be exposed to polite society.</B><BR>
<BR>
And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be sure<BR>
that the nails are stainless steel. <B>I should think it would be be better not to shoot oneself with a regular gun nail than to shoot it with a stainless nail, but that's just my personal opinion. Others may disagree.</B> Less infection.<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Ralph</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:11:44 -1000
From:    "Spencer A. Leineweber" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lanai

John:

There are lots of great examples of lanai on historic buildings. I will
send you back channel a jpg of probably the first one, a c1835 meeting
hall and a great residence from the 1930s.

A lanai is a covered space with open sides usually attached to a house
or building. It is used interchangeably here for porch, [actually no
one says porch] but to spell it correctly in Hawaiian it needs a
horizontal mark over the first "a".  The Hawaiian root word is "la"
meaning sun. You can throw away that Latin dictionary.

Spencer

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:14:19 EDT
From:    Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass

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[log in to unmask] expresses:

> Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard.  I tried varnishing
> particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City.
> It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well
> once it got wet. Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.
> Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be exposed to
> polite society.

In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment house with
serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to strip off 50
years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's expensive is making all
the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of rent-controlled paint jobs), I
was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were just beginning to be aware of all the
cool stuff that had been covered up.

Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because the
paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in part
because you could mess up the kitchen.   Then they would do the dining room,
because that had full-height panelling.  After that things varied, but many
people started stripping the exuberant detail in the living room:  pilasters
on the corners and the chimney breast.

I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me when I
said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular stripper, and at any
rate would be "natural wood".  So there are still at lot of living rooms
there with nice new paint jobs (the apartments now sell for $1million plus)
but very, very smudgey detailing.

Christopher Gray

PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a
tung oil finish.   Helpful?

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">[log in to unmask] expresses:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Someday we will be clear coating fiberboard.&nbsp; <B>I tried varnishing particleboard for use as kitchen countertops in my kitchen in Joisey City.&nbsp; It looked OK initially, but I have a feeling it may not have done so well once it got wet. </B>Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.&nbsp; <B>Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be exposed, or at least not to be exposed to polite society.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE></B><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
In my old building at 90th and Broadway, a 1909 12 story apartment house with serious mahogany finishes throughout (it's not expensive to strip off 50 years of paint and refinish 31 mahogany doors; what's expensive is making all the wood repairs covered up by the 50 years of rent-controlled paint jobs), I was a tenant in 1980, when tenants were just beginning to be aware of all the cool stuff that had been covered up.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Usually people stripped the oak kitchen cabinets first, in part because the paint sort of popped off the original heavy laquer finish, and in part because you could mess up the kitchen.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then they would do the dining room, because that had full-height panelling.&nbsp; After that things varied, but many people started stripping the exuberant detail in the living room:&nbsp; pilasters on the corners and the chimney breast.<BR>
<BR>
I tried to warn as many as I could but some people didn't believe me when I said it was compo, and would sort of melt under regular stripper, and at any rate would be "natural wood".&nbsp; So there are still at lot of living rooms there with nice new paint jobs (the apartments now sell for $1million plus) but very, very smudgey detailing.<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Gray<BR>
<BR>
PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a tung oil finish.&nbsp;&nbsp; Helpful? </FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:17:07 EDT
From:    Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: cork floors

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In a message dated 10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:


> I am looking at cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I worry
> about longevity and humidity

Mr. Pyrate, Sir:

I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house in
nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to have held
up pretty well.  One of the McKim Mead & White cottages in Newport (I'm quite
sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the dining room (and maybe other) ceiling,
and perhaps din rm walls, too, although one could aregue there's less foot
traffic on their walls and ceilings than there will be on your floors.  I
don't particularly like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of the
early part of decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example and is
worthy of TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to provide
it, which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever ask me
to provide professional guidance....

I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression that
this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some designer
type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard of before.
One of the things I DID hear about it is that there was a very bad
installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or too-short sea voyage
over from China or wherever the hell it comes from, and the bamboo didn't
have enough time to dry (or acclimate itself, or some such problem) and had
to be ripped out and replaced about 5 minutes after it was laid.

 Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years, but I
wouldn't count on it here, just yet.  Then again, try it out: but keep us
posted.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/19/02 1:43:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I am looking at cork floors; I am also looking at bamboo floors ; I worry<BR>
about longevity and humidity </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Mr. Pyrate, Sir:<BR>
<BR>
I have friends who have a fairly high-style archt-designed 1950's house in nearby Short Hills, with a cork floor in most of it that seems to have held up pretty well.&nbsp; One of the McKim Mead &amp; White cottages in Newport (I'm quite sure it's Kingscote) has cork on the dining room (and maybe other) ceiling, and perhaps din rm walls, too, although one could aregue there's less foot traffic on their walls and ceilings than there will be on your floors.&nbsp; I don't particularly like the SH house, hating 1950's stuff as a child of the early part of decade, but I can see that it's an interesting example and is worthy of TLC, but I don't think my friends the owners are likely to provide it, which will make for an interesting ethical quandary if they ever ask me to provide professional guidance....<BR>
<BR>
I am not terribly familiar with bamboo flooring, but it's my impression that this is a newly-developed product; I first hear about it from some designer type, and am suspicious as I am of everything I've never heard of before.&nbsp; One of the things I DID hear about it is that there was a very bad installation somewhere that resulted from a too-long or too-short sea voyage over from China or wherever the hell it comes from, and the bamboo didn't have enough time to dry (or acclimate itself, or some such problem) and had to be ripped out and replaced about 5 minutes after it was laid. <BR>
<BR>
 Maybe the Chinese have used this stuff over there for 10,000 years, but I wouldn't count on it here, just yet.&nbsp; Then again, try it out: but keep us posted.</FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:26:25 EDT
From:    Ralph Walter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass

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In a message dated 10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:


> PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a
> tung oil finish.   Helpful?

No.  Too late.

I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung oil.
And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil finish on
particleboard--the more impervious the better.  And on third thought, I think
you're attempting to extend one of my lower extremities.

Ralph


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/20/02 5:14:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS Anyway, you aren't 'sposed to varnish particleboard - you should use a tung oil finish.&nbsp;&nbsp; Helpful? </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
No.&nbsp; Too late.<BR>
<BR>
I had cans of quick-dry varnish around, and didn't have cans of tung oil.&nbsp; And on second thought, I don't think one would want an oil finish on particleboard--the more impervious the better.&nbsp; And on third thought, I think you're attempting to extend one of my lower extremities.<BR>
<BR>
Ralph<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:56:39 -0400
From:    William Gould <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Silkscreened Stained Glass

on 10/19/02 9:53 AM, Robert J. Cagnetta at [log in to unmask] wrote:

> We have some 1883 church glass that seems to be silkscreened, with a wash of
> color in some parts of the design.  We can see the "movement" in the pattern
> that may suggest a screening, yet it does not easliy scrape off.  Is there a
> "fixer" of some sort applied over it to stabilize it?  And are the inks
> still available?
>
Are you dealing with transparent, translucent or opaque materials, colors,
that has been transferred to the glass?

Bill






> The other thing is that the existing linoleom has a burlap backing.  Could
> this be original?  It lies ove a unremarkable face nailed T&G floor, which
> now people like this old subfloor.  Someday we will be clear coating
> fiberboard.  Anyway, wanted to see if this could be original as well.
>
> And remember, if you are going to shoot your hand with a nail gun, be sure
> that the nails are stainless steel.  Less infection.
>
> Rob Cagnetta
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:13:47 -0400
From:    john <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PTNEWS

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The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter.  I am working
on Vol 1. #2.  I am looking for information as shown in the outline.  If
you have a contribution please send it to me as a microsoft word file.

First; Front Page = Interest article    (750 - 1000)
I need an interest article

        Recent IPTW
                I need reflections on IPTW

  Membership Activity           Letters from members or others (500 words)

        News about members

Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)

Receiving awards (35 t0 75)

Preservation Trades News
        I need information in this area
        Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)
        Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)
        Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)
         Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)
   Employment opportunities (50-100)
Position available
Positions sought
Volunteer opportunities

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The Preservation Trades Network is now doing a newsletter.  I am
working on Vol 1. #2.  I am looking for information as shown in the
outline.  If you have a contribution please send it to me as a
microsoft word file.


First; Front Page = Interest article    (750 - 1000)

<italic>I need an interest article

</italic>

        Recent IPTW

                <italic>I need reflections on IPTW

        </italic>

 Membership Activity            Letters from members or others (500 words)

        <italic>

</italic>       News about members


Moving to new responsibilities (50 to 75)


Receiving awards (35 t0 75)


Preservation Trades News

        <italic>I need information in this area

</italic>       Exhibits related to trades and building technology (50 -100)

        Conferences and tours related to Preservation Trades. (50 -100)

        Training related to Preservation Trades (50 -100)

         Building conservation projects of interest (250 - 500)

  Employment opportunities (50-100)

Position available

Positions sought

Volunteer opportunities


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End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 20 Oct 2002 to 21 Oct 2002 (#2002-283)
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