Ken,

Thank you for sharing the insight on estimating and the for the update on the 
St. Felix Street project. My method of calculating material cost as a 
percentage of job cost is a little simpler and cruder, roughly looking at 
total contract price vs. our invoice for products sold. But I will grant that 
there are many variables and details that we don't typically have to consider.

As for the dumb factor, I think we have had that discussion here before, 
particularly in regard to historic repointing specifications and the use of 
power tools vs. hand chisels. I tend to agree with those who argue that 
specifications too often focus on the wrong end of the tool, and that any tool 
in the hands of an idiot is potentially damaging.

Ken, you will be missed at the Natural Cement Conference in Washington next 
week, but there is always next year in Syracuse. Shameless plug: Everyone else 
can still sign up in the next few days. Complete information is available at 
www.naturalcement.org.

As for Wal-Mart, I will confess to having shopped there in the past, and yes, 
their prices are very low, but there are enough things that disturb me about 
their business practices to keep me out of their stores these days. What keeps 
me in touch with my roots is remembering the middle class world I grew up in, 
and recognizing the downward pressure that the Wal Mart business model has had 
on it. Then again, I may be unduly influenced by my perspective as one of a 
diminishing number of manufacturers that are still manufacturing anything in 
America.

Edison Coatings, Inc.
Michael P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062
Phone: (860) 747-2220 or (800)697-8055
Fax: (860)747-2280 or (800) 697-8044
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Gabriel Orgrease <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:19:59 -0800
Subject: Re: [BP] Tnemec paint

> Michael,
> 
> My rule-of-thumb for a quick & dirty job estimate is materials at 20% 
> of labor cost before overhead & profit. This comes from two decades of 
> cost analysis in the NYC market. It is accurate to the tune of, "We 
> won't get hurt too badly if we don't pay close attention on this." 
> That said, though cost analysis uses simple math (add, subtract, 
> divide, multiply) we are always dealing with complex systems with many 
> variables.
> 
> In NYC in particular there is a heavy logistics burden. It can cost 
> more than the materials in labor, many times over, to get them from 
> the supply point to the work. If we are talking 'optimal' return on 
> investment I am always in favor of using the best available materials 
> with an appropriate mix of labor skills. Though as Deb Bledsoe rightly 
> points out the selection of materials can have a significant impact on 
> the 'means' of the work and on the mix of the labor skills required to 
> use the materials in a manner that does not screw them up... it does 
> not help to have a 2-part epoxy system with mechanics that can't spell 
> past the letter A. And if you have contractors/mechanics that can read 
> (with various levels of comprehension) you might actually find that 
> they worry about carcinogens and lead poisoning and all the labor and 
> health issues that go with it. So what I consider costs more than 
> materials is not labor, what costs more is intelligence. The commodity 
> I look at in putting a project together is not labor, it is mental 
> capacity. Right now we are working zero tolerance on dumb people and 
> that makes us appear to be expensive... but then again I also believe 
> in attempting to deliver value on the dollar.
> 
> That said, having recently stopped by the 26 townhouse facades on St. 
> Felix Street in Brooklyn I have to say that your materials have held 
> up incredibly well -- but I will also credit the mechanics who applied 
> them. On the other hand, the folks that fabricated the precast 
> 'brownstone' stairs should be quartered and shot on sight. Talk about 
> barf index!
> 
> I am incredibly sorry that I will not be able to make the Natural 
> Cement conference in DC this month. Cash flow is tight and there is 
> too much going on in business right now for me to break free.
> 
> We purchase our unprinted t-shirts off the shelf at a dollar discount 
> shop. I also get in trouble because I profess to enjoy shopping at 
> Wal-Mart -- it keeps me honest with my roots. Lunch is important... we 
> spend money on food... we also spend money on tools. An unhappy 
> mechanic is way too expensive.
> 
> ][<en
> 
> edison wrote:
> 
> >Bravo, Eric. I am always amazed that the typical 2-5% of total project cost 
> >represented by materials is always the subject of "value engineering" when 
> >there is probably more to be saved by dropping donut money and company T-
> >shirts.
> >
> 
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://listserv.icors.org/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
------- End of Original Message -------

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