My opinion.....
You (or someone experienced in this) need to spend some time looking at the
construction (walls, ceiling, roofs, floors), materials, condition,
performance, etc. Then think about each repair and material being considered
and how it may affect the performance of the wall, floor, ceiling, roof.
Placing the vapor barrier in the wrong location, can cause rotting within
the wall section.
On the particular item of concern - expanding foam (urethane or latex
based?). It is difficult to imagine that this or sealant would perform
satisfactorily for any length of time in wood or masonry.
Caution sealing the chimney - moisture buildup within can cause
deterioration - still need to vent out moisture somewhat.
Eric Hammarberg
Associate Director of Preservation
Senior Project Director
LZA Technology
641 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10011-2014
Telephone: 212.741.1300 extension: 1016
Mobile: 917.439.3537
Fax: 212.989.2040
email: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Candice Brashears [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: foaming insulation
In a message dated 03/22/01 1:37:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask]
writes:
<< Horizontal external board sheathing w/1/8" - 1/4"spacing is now exposed
in
the kitchen which lies behind a fieldstone face.
I don't get where the fieldstone face is--but fieldstone would be a most
unusual interior finish for the Olden Days. Is it possible your house is
much older, or the fieldstone is somebody's idea of antique artsy fartsy, as
opposed to Authentic?
The fieldstone is on the exterior and is original. Some exterior is
clapboard
- So I need to skip on over there to double check again which walls have
what.
Occasionally daylight was peeping through, so I stuffed a bit of polyfoam
tubular weatherstripping in.
The contractor suggested that the owner spray foaming self-expanding crack
filler in (vs caulk) whenever daylight shows throughout the house
(everywhere
is down to lath or studs).
The owner has asked me to spray the foaming goop between every board
horizontally, and vertically on both sides of the studs
I don't see that the vertical goop is going to do the Owner as much good as
it will do the hardware store owner who sells the stuff. Is the exterior
wall covering one layer or two (siding on the outside and sheathing on the
inside? ) Since you're seeing horizontal joints on the insterior, it sounds
like there is only siding (clapboards or shiplap or something) which was a
lousy job when it was built, and will have made for generations of cold
Owners.
The owner knew the previous owners pretty well and said the room was always
cold. Two and 1/2 are exposed to outside - 1/2 of 3rd wall is next to a
stone
chimney which is exposed to the outside as well. From the inside, I see
studs behind which are the horizontal boards. There is very little daylight
spots so as mentioned above - I've got to look closer. The daylight by the
way is where ivy roots crawled from the outside right through to the
interior
space between the studs (The house was covered with the stuff up til this
past fall. - I remember all the complaints from a year or so ago on this
list
about ivy).
to "make really sure
there is no air infiltration because the kitchen was
always very cold" (he is
going to insulate between the studs, vapor barrier and sheetrock - I think
he's going to soundproof with a 1/8" vinyl sheet under the sheetrock as
well)
The insul and vapor barrier are good ideas, but I don't see where 1/8" sheet
vinyl will provide any soundproofing (soundproofing is best when it's full
of
air, like insulation, rather than something solid which conducts the sound
waves), and I don't think you want more than one impermeable barrier in a
wall for fear of trapping moisture in between layers.
The vinyl sheet is something he found on the web under "soundproofing" and
may be similar to the stuff they put under the carpets of better cars to
deaden road sound. Its very heavy - 40lbs / sq ft and is installed with
roofing nails.
You/he/somebody needs
to look further at why the kitchen was always cold; is it exposed on 3 sides
(like mine), got lots of (or lousy) windows and doors (like mine), no
vestbule between it and the outside (I have a vestibule, but no storm door
on
the exterior, and kids who never close the damn doors anyway), is this
fielstone fireplace sucking all the heated air out through the flue?
Yup
Does it
have a damper?
Yup
Is there an occupied floor above the kitchen; Yup
if not, he is
likely to have lost more through the ceiling/roof than the
walls, and heat
loss through windows and doors (which after all are big holes in the wall)
is
more likely than through plastered walls.
I personally think its a tad overkill here, but - hey - I'm the broom guy.
You smart girl, ask good questions. Tell boys to listen to you.
Thanks
Question: Will the foamy expand - not allow the boards to heave & weave -
and
cause all sorts of mischief with splitting, warping, condensing etc? if used
to fill all the spaces between - which were left there intentionally when
built? The owner wants "dry - warm - quiet" and never go in the walls
again.
He is also very much preservation minded, so won't do anything that is
known
to be destructive during this restoration process.
The foamy stuff damn well better expand, but I would think it's less rigid
than wood when it cures, and therefore more likely to be crushed by the
warping and twisting of the siding (if that happens to any significant
extent) than damage the siding. However, if the foamy shit (I'm speaking
technically here, not vulgarly) gets crushed, it ain't gonna be doing
anything useful anymore. In which case, your owner would be better off with
sealant, which flexes when the substrates move on either side of it. But
unless there are other signs of distress there shouldn't be huge amounts of
movement.
The foamy turns into something like styrofoam. I remember it was used as a
filler along kitchen plumbing behind my kitchen cabinets (to block the mice
hiking trail) and was kind of difficult to remove when we moved cabinets
around. Had to take a chisel and hammer. It was used as a masonry
crackfiller as well. Seems to me I saw something similar used as insulation
sprayed on basement masonry walls on some TV fix it show a while back.
I'm now beginning to wonder about these 1/8" gaps between the siding. There
shouldn't be so much space if it's siding (cuz the walls would leak like
sieves, which is essentially what they are with all those gaps), although
the
gaps make more sense if it's sheathing. So what is it that you see from the
inside?
It is definitely sheathing and not the siding.
I rather need to know in the next couple of days - because the workmen will
start to insulate fairly soon. I told him we need to see if its OK to do
this first. The contractors at present are not restoration guys - those
putting things back together will be - I hope.
>>
Ah, the bulls are in the china shop, after which somebody else gets to come
along and clean up after them. The restoration guys ought to be all over
the
rough boys to make sure they don't do more damage than they need to.
Tell us more.
Will do. Soon as I trot over there to look again-probably tomorrow.
Thanks a lot for the input! I'll be baaaccck.
Ralph
Broomer
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