Hi Colin,
Well, I honestly didn't intend all of the things you've read into my post. 
Also, I am not in a pissing match with anyone. I'm not telling anybody to 
think of Freedom Scientific as a small startup company, or to give up their 
right to an opinion that may differ from mine, though I can say that the 
people I work with do care about the products we produce and the people who 
use them. also, everyone has the right to o expect quality products from any 
company from which they purchase products. No Kool-Aid. You've got my email, 
and I'd be glad to hear about things you feel have needed addressing in 
JAWS. I don't dictate the priority assigned to bug resolution but I do have 
input into the process and will be sure that your reports are accurately and 
correctly handled.

In my previous post I intended to communicate three things:

1. Rigorous steps are taken to insure that the CDs distributed include only 
the desired content.

2. Though I really don't understand what might have happened in the case of 
Tom's update, I would very much like to have the CD checked out so that we 
can address any issues. Also, I will be sure that Tom receives a new COULD.

3. I was discouraged to read the comment that Freedom Scientific might be 
trying to "pull a fast one" because Tom had an issue with his update CD.
    As I said in my previous post, the immediate response to an isolated 
incident without knowing what response might be forthcoming was not what I 
expected (perhaps naively) from this community.

My response to Matt Chao was not intended as a personal attack and I regret 
that you perceived it as such. The sense of discouragement I expressed is my 
own, it is not a corporate feeling provided by Freedom Scientific. I will, 
in future not share my personal opinions on this list, nor will I question 
the opinions of others.

Ron Miller
N6MSA
Tarpon Springs, FL
-----Original Message----- 
From: Colin McDonald
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:38 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Off Topic: "Heads Up To Those Installing Jaws 16 via the CD

well it's obviously not impossible is it lol.
And I expect that this issue, as rare as it may be, speaks to some of the
greater issues with the JFW product over the past few releases.
I know that sending out the wrong cd might be a completely different issue
than problems with the software itself, but those problems tend to over lap
into a general discontent with the product in it's current form.
And while I'm not going to get into a technical discussion on specific bugs
and problems, I will say that FS hasn't revamped JFW and fixed many of the
integral issues that have plagued it for years and years.
It's still the #1 screen reader on the market hands down, but one would
think that after 20 plus years of development, some of the major stuff would
have been fixed by now.
So a comment like what is fs trying to pull has some resonance with those of
us who feel that product development has been poor of late.
It isn't a matter of poor logic, or sheer bloody mindedness on the part of
the commenter, but an expression of a general feeling towards the product
and company for some of the frankly rediculous oversights in programming and
development.
And yes, I realize resources are limited and all the rest of the stuff that
goes into software development and the companies involved therein and the
struggles they face.
But I don't think I'm the only one on the plannet who feels, that after
being a JFW user for 20 years, we are ready to see some major improvements
to software that is hugely over priced in todays market...and that we are a
bit wierry of release after release with minimal bug fixes as well as new
bugs that effect our daily use of the software in a work environment, and
the same old upgrade scheme for going on 3 decades.
Please don't try and make us feel that FS is just some upstart company with
some altruistic desire of helping out blind people to access their
computers.  That changed many years ago and the ship has long since sailed.
FS is a money making entity with seemingly limited regard for their customer
base because that customer base has little alternative and is mostly driven
by tax payer dollars and not by the end consumer.
I also dont' think it is appropriate for a representative of said company to
start a pissing match with the end customer about his or her feelings on the
product or the company.  It isn't the right place to engage in such a
conversation.
If I were to take your comments to heart, I would now believe that being a
fellow ham, and JFW user, that I must now drink the coolade, and shut up and
not voice my opinions or thoughts on issues I face every single day and that
I should just be glad that someone, in this case a multi-million dollar
for-proffit organization, is nice enough to provide me with some kind of
access and that I shouldn't want or expect more out of them.
This would be appropriate thinking if FS was a non-proffit small
organization struggling with limited funding and limited resources to try
and make something new and usable...but that is really not the case.
When you are representing the top dog in a software field, you have to
accept the good and the bad and not try and debate on a personal level the
marrits of someones discontent.
If this is how FS responds to less than glowing comments or responses, then
no wonder there is discontent.

73
Colin, V A6BKX
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ron Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 8:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Off Topic: "Heads Up To Those Installing Jaws 16 via the CD

Hello everyone,=20
I don't know what happened with Tom's installation of JAWS 16, but would
ver=
y much like to learn more. I have contacted Tom off-list, and hope to talk
w=
ith him directly to get more details.

"Quality control" is very high on the CDs we distribute. Before any CDs for
d=
istribution are produced, a "Gold Master" disc is created after the content
a=
nd actual CD which will become the physical master is tested for any
physica=
l defects and integrity of the digital content. The likelihood of the JAWS
1=
3 executable being included on the JAWS 16 CD is extremely small, not
someth=
ing I would even consider possible. We have shipped thousands of these CDs
w=
ithout any issues being reported with regard to their content or usability.
=
I am hoping that Tom will help shed some more light on what might have take=
n place.

Matt, to directly address your second comment:
What exactly would Freedom Scientific be "trying to pull?" How could
sending=
an installAtion file two versions old benefit anybody? Do you think it coul=
d somehow cause the company to get more money, or increase sales? I've
parti=
cipated in this list for many years, have exchanged comments, given and
rece=
ived advice, even committed to pray for a few folks over the years. I'm
disc=
ouraged to see that fellow hams, who are usually a pretty logical lot, so
ea=
sily question the integrity of others based upon an isolated incident,
espec=
ially without knowing what response arises from such an incident.

If anyone else receives a defective JAWS 16 CD, I would be very glad to
hear=
about it and personally see to it that it is exchanged for another disc. If=
anyone wishes to contact me directly I can be reached by the email address
u=
sed on this list, or at my work address:
[log in to unmask]
The response will be much faster if my work address is used because, with a
2=
-year old at home, I do not have the time to always check my personal email
d=
aily.

I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas, happy New Year and a blessed
hol=
iday season. I hope to get some antennas up in 2015 and see you all on the
a=
ir.

73,
Ron Miller
N6MSA
Tarpon Springs FL



> On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:55 PM, Matthew Chao <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>=20
> Wow!  That reallhy is poor quality control.  Or, are they trying to=20
> pull a fast one?--Matt, N1IBB.
>=20
> At 07:19 PM 12/15/2014, you wrote:
>> All:
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I know some will consider this off topic, but I thought I would post it
>> h=
ere
>> as well as to the Jaws list.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hopefully, it will prevent someone else from going through what I did at
>> work today.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Tom Behler: KB8TYJ
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> From: Tom Behler [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 7:14 PM
>> To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.'
>> Subject: "Heads Up To Those Installing Jaws 16 via the CD
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hi, all.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Today, I attempted to install Jaws 16 on a new computer at work via the
>> C=
D
>> that was just shipped to me, and ran into an interesting issue.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Even though, according to one of my sighted colleagues,  the CD was
>> clear=
ly
>> labeled Jaws 16, the actual installation file was the executable file
>> for=

>> Jaws 13.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Obviously, Freedom Scientific quality control is not working very well.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> What I had to do was go on line to download and save the executable file
>> f=
or
>> Jaws 16 onto a thumb drive, and then do the installation from there.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> I contacted FS about the error, and insisted that they at least send me
>> t=
he
>> CD with the correct Jaws version on it.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> When I asked them if they had seen anything like this before, they said
>> t=
hat
>> my case was not the first.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Will see what happens from here.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Dr.  Tom Behler from Michigan
>>=20
>>=20