perhaps that could work.
A delta loop or sky loop in a horizontal configuration is supposed to help 
with all that and be a great performer otherwise.

73
Colin, V A6BKX
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin McCormick" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: magnetic loop antennas?


> There is an article in the December "QST" about how all signals
> that arrive via sky-wave propagation get converted in to
> elliptically-polarized signals such that the best antennas for
> receiving and transmitting should be circularly polarized.
>
> The author tells us how to build two crossed dipoles
> with a 90-degree phasing difference between the two to get
> circular polarization. His experimental designs are for
> reception of WWV at 10 MHZ, but the principles are the same for
> any band.
>
> In other words, you needn't worry so much about your
> polarization except when making local contacts where it does
> matter. A loop should be circularly polarized so, except for the
> issue of narrow bandwidth, it should be a very good antenna.
>
> I am thinking about going to some sort of loop for my
> HF, here, but haven't done anything yet. I have terrible power
> line QRM most of the time and a loop might help separate all the
> garbage from the signals.
> colin McDonald writes:
>> the author of the website I posted has a magnetic loop for 80M that is 12
>> feet square, made from 2 inch aluminum tubing and is vertically mounted
>> with
>> the bottom 6 inches off the ground.
>> he says on the website that it works equally as well as an 80M dipole.
>> What I like about the magnetic loops is that their performance seems to
>> equal something similar to a dipole, but you can set one up in your 
>> living
>> room or on your balcony very easily.  Especially for the higher bands...a
>> magnetic loop for 10M would only be 2 feet square or less...around 85 to
>> 90
>> percent of the quarter wave of the band you wish to work the most on.
>> A guy could easily have several loops for 6M 10M 12M 15, 17  and 20M all
>> set
>> up on the balcony.
>> In this article he uses a coaxial stub as a capacitor, but you can also
>> get
>> a gennings variable cap rated for 10KV that you can motorize and remotely
>> tune the antenna for allot of different bands and frequencies.
>> You get polarization if the loop is vertically polarized as well...you 
>> get
>> lobes off the sides in a figure 8 pattern with a nul at the center of the
>> square...so you can use it as a directional antenna or to null out QRM or
>> QRN.
>> Of course, with 100W into the antenna, the capacitor has something like
>> 3KV
>> on it, so that piece has to be well above or beyond human contact.
>> Definitely an interesting project to think about.
>> These antennas are pretty hard to tune up with out an antenna analyzer as
>> you have to tune the feed point, then tune the capacitor...difficult to 
>> do
>> as oftent he antenna's feed point resonance will be way way out of the 
>> ham
>> band...after tuning the feedpoint, you tune the stub or cap to bring it 
>> up
>> to resonance on the band you wish to use.
>> Essentially, you use an antenna analyzer after hooking up the feedline by
>> the method recommended...then, where ever you see a dip in the SWR, you
>> move
>> the center conducter up or down the side until you achieve a flat match
>> regardless of the frequency.
>> Then, you start cutting your coaxial stub until your very close to the
>> frequency you want, and have a flat match still.  With a coaxial stub,
>> it's
>> something like 1 inch of coax for every 200KHZ or so.
>> In his example, he starts out with 3FT of coax, and a feedpoint match
>> frequency of 10MHZ...he cuts the coax down until he's at about 14.00MHZ.
>> Then he just slides the outer brade of the coax back another half inch to
>> get into the phone portion of 20M.
>> It doesn't seem to matter what the feedpoint resonant frequency is, as
>> long
>> as you can get it down to 1 to 1 somewhere in the HF spectrum.
>> apparently as long as that point is lower in frequency to the frequency
>> you
>> wish the antenna to perform on, then your ok.
>> I don't yet completely understand the theory behind this style of 
>> antenna,
>> but I certainly understand what needs to be done to make them work
>> properly...even if that is a bit counter intuative to other kinds of
>> antenna
>> theory.
>>
>> 73
>> Colin, V A6BKX
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lou Kolb" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: magnetic loop antennas?
>>
>>
>> > Colin,
>> >
>> > I've never used one but worked a guy using one a couple months ago on 
>> > 40
>> > meters.  I'm in PA and he was somewhere in New England but he was 20
>> over
>> > S9
>> > and I was amazed when he told me what he was running.  He had not only 
>> > a
>> > competitive signal, but an outstanding one.  As you say, he couldn't
>> > really
>> > move from that frequency without readjusting, but the thing worked
>> > remarkably well.  As you might imagine, we spent most of the QSO
>> > discussing
>> > the merrits and drawbacks of that antenna.  Sounds like a fun and
>> > worthwhile
>> > project.  73,  Lou WA3MIX
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "colin McDonald" <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:11 PM
>> > Subject: magnetic loop antennas?
>> >
>> >
>> >>I have a couple questions for the list regarding magnetic loop 
>> >>antennas.
>> >> Firstly, has anyone used them on HF?   I'm speaking of the small
>> >> transmitting loops that are made in a square and use a capacitor on 
>> >> one
>> >> side
>> >> to tune to resonance.
>> >> And, if so, what sort of results has anyone found with them?
>> >> Also, has anyone on list built one using a coaxial stub capacitor?
>> >> Check out this website:
>> >> HTTP://www.standpipe.com/w2bri/
>> >>
>> >> he's got a very straight forward, step by step description of how to
>> >> build
>> >> a
>> >> magnetic loop antenna from copper plumming supplies, and using a piece
>> of
>> >> coax as a capacitive stub.
>> >> The antenna looks exceedingly easy to build, and his claims, as well 
>> >> as
>> >> others, say the 3.5 foot square loop will perform as well as a half
>> wave
>> >> dipole on whatever band you tune it for...of course, as long as the
>> >> loop's
>> >> circumphrence is something less than a quarter wave on that band...for
>> >> instance, this loop is 14 feet all around and therefore is less than a
>> >> quarter wave on 20M.  I've heard allot of great things about the
>> magnetic
>> >> loop type antenna...of course it's only draw back is that it has an
>> >> extremely narrow band width...something like 20 to 30KHZ.
>> >>
>> >> anyway, check out that website and tell me what you guys think.
>> >>
>> >> 73
>> >> Colin, V A6BKX
>> >
>>
>>