This message is getting rather off-topic so I will not respond to it
further on this list.
Ilya
"Anna L. Abrante" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/18/99 4:44:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
> writes:
>
> > "Anna L. Abrante" wrote:
> > > I personally would prefer
> > > the company of animals over people any day of the week and twice on
> Sunday.
> >
> > > They are pure, they never lie, cheat or steal with maliciousness. They
> do
> > not
> > > murder for sport ( hunting to eat is not sport).
> >
>
> Ilya responded:
>
> Well, I have counter examples to above just from my pets, not even talking
> > about wild animals.
>
> Somehow, I knew someone would.
>
> I have had different pets that would KNOWINGLY damage
> > stuff and pretend they didn't. One cat used to scratch off wall paper
> > off the walls. So I punished him (humanely - used a flower sprayer to
> > spray water on him while puting his face to the results of his scratching).
> > After that he seemed to stop. Until I discovered he was scratching off
> > wallpaper where I couldn't see it
>
> If you cant see it, where's the pleasure in pissing you off??? You do know
> cats scratch trees in the wild to keep claws sharp......
>
> - behind the curtains and the bed and
> > the sofa, you get the picture. The other pet was a bunny who would chew
> > up cables - electrical, audio, etc. After his first or second 'punishment'
> > (I yelled at him) he seemed to stop, until I noticed that the cables
> > kept getting worse. I started sneaking up on him and saw that he chewed
> > them up just as much when I wasn't around.
>
> With the exception of Bugs Bunny, I've not seen very intelligent rabbits.
> See my above comment.
>
> As soon as he would spot me
> > he'd stop and pretend to do something else. As for murdering for sport -
> > have you ever seen a house cat playing with a baby mouse. Not a pretty
> > sight. Never seen a house cat actually eat a mouse. Sometimes it would
> > bring it back as a 'trophy', many times not. A coworker recently
> > described how his (fully grown, not a kitten) cat was torturing a baby
> > field mouse for a while until he saved the mouse from the cat. At first
> > he thought the cat would just kill the mouse and didn't want to interfere
> > with his instincts. But after a while it became obviouse that the cat
> > knew what to do, but just preferred batting the poor thing endlessly,
> > like some toy. (This cat has actually killed wild life before, from mice
> > to rats to birds, so is aware of how to do it).
>
> Yes I have seen it. It's fairly common. But it doesn't compare to people
> that go out of their way to break hearts. Nor to the average kidnap/rapist
> that uses tools on his victims. Taking my original post into consideration
> where I say, "take pleasure in toying with....just for fun..." are you saying
> animals are still worse than humans in this??? I think not.
> >
> > > They take responsibility for their young
> > Ever heard how cookoos raise their young? Just one example.
>
> Yes, I know about them too. Nature selected them with this unique way
> of insuring their survival, no evil intent. And the numbers of cookoos
> throwing out young doesn't begin to compare to the number of parents
> abandoning their children.
>
> > > and carry themselves in the world. They do not blame their
> > > weaknesses on others, and do not spend their lives whining about it and
> > > making excuses.
>
> > Do they have a need or means to blame weaknesses on others?
> >
>
> Need?? Do humans really have a "need" for this?? And thank goodness they
> don't have the means. If they did, they'd probably forget how to hunt for
> themselves
> and would start picketing in some human rights protest, expecting others to
> house and feed them.
>
> > They do not take pleasure in deliberatly causing others
> > > pain just for the fun of it.
> > See above (or see a national geographic video on river otters playing
> > with fish they never intend to eat or give to their young).
>
> See my above comment too.
>
> > > They are not hypocrites in a world of finger
> > > pointers.
> > Do they have the means to be hypocrites? (i.e. speach)
>
> Nope, and isn't that wonderful?? Precisely why I like them so much....
> >
> > Don't take this as a slamming.
>
> I Dont.
>
> You simply have a very idealistic view
> > of animals and express it in the language that is even more idealistic
>
> Yes I do. But the worst animal, still can't even begin to compare humans
> in their evil towards others.
>
> > (e.g. what does it mean when you say animals are pure?)
>
> They lack malice aforethought. Or better yet, they lack EGO, how's that?
> They function on instinct in a way that makes
> sense in their world. You will never convince me that shooting someone in the
> head for a $2 or less, is equivalent to a cat toying with a mouse, a cat
> scratching a
> wall, a rabbit biting thru wires or otters teasing their babies. If my
> idealism
> is a bad thing, I apologize, but I'd still prefer their company.
> >
> > Ilya
> >
> >
>
> Sorry to be so morose. Maybe I shouldn't be training to be a crime scene
> technician.
> Perhaps I should go sell flowers for Conroy's....sorry to take you folks off
> topic so long.
>
> Anna 8-) <animal eater and lover, but quite saddened by the human condition>
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