Amadeus quoted me as saying:
>Eat lettuce till the cows come home but you cannot get any VitaminA. Try
cod liver oil, liver, other organ meats, etc. We need to eat animal sorce
food to get our essential As!

>This is not true and you should know it. Or how do you explain that so many
vegetarians and also meat-eaters
which never eat liver or dairy (animal Vitamin A donators).

Sorry!  I spoke inaccurately.  I should have said "it is debatable whether
you can (or everyone can) convert enough beta carotene into vitamin A,
particularly if you have one of the risk factors mentioned which can hinder
the conversion.  Also, egg yolks also contain activated or true/preformed
vitamin A.

>Amadeus wrote: Many don't eat liver and fish (both evironment poison
accumulating). But liver, fish sources, dairy sources (butter) or
supplements are the most effective sources for a deficient. >They have also
been led to believe that sunlight can provide all the >necessary vitamin D.
Thats annother point. Vitamin D is made in the sun. 17 minutes daylight on
hands and face are sufficient (if the precursors are available).

This is debatable as cloud cover, particulate/pollution levels can block
sufficient sun rays, particularly if one lives in a Northern climate.  I
read about a study on nurses in Michingan (don't have the refs handy) in
which these women, even with 20 minutes of sun exposure per day, still had
sub-optimal blood levles of vitamin D. There is evidence that sub-optimal
vitamin D intake can increase the risk of osteoporosis, cancer, and Multiple
Sclerosis.  I can provide references for any Doubting Thomases.

Amadeus:  The only ready-made Vitamin D sources worth to mention are fish
and mushrooms. Mushrooms may be a important key factor.

As for mushrooms being a source of vitamin D---I think it's a pile of hot
steaming corn grits. I read a study on that several months back and think it
must have been an analag (similar to the B-12 analogs found in certain
vegetable foods which many followers of vegan and macrobiotic diets
"believed" to be true B-12 but found out otherwise.  I just don't believe
that figs, sea weeds, mushrooms, or similar vegetable foods will supply the
animal source nutrients that many vegetarians, vegans and macrobiotic
proponents "think"  or "believe"  will.

Dr. Weston Price's work suggests that the form of vitamin D one "gets" form
sun exposure is not enough and that there is a vitamin D "complex" (just as
there are B complex vitamins, not just one B vitamin).  Check out *Nutrition
& Physical Degneration* by Weston Price, DDS and also Ron Schmid, N.D.'s
book *Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine*.  See page 162 of Schmid's
book for into on the difference between synthetic vitamin D added to
commercial dairy products and multivitamins as well as the difference
between D3 and D2 in their biochemical structure.

Dr. Price found that the healthiest primitive people (free of the diseases
of civilization and with exceptional dentition--broad dental arches, all
teeth coming in straight, no impacted or crowded teeth, etc.) all ate animal
source foods and had animals sources of vitamins A & D.  Price found no such
healthy vegetarian peoples in his worldly travels.

But fish? Requires you to support some aquatic human developenent theory. Do
you? Or does this include too much doubts with you. I personally like to
swim, but I don't see fins on my hands....

I believe that the benefits of eating fish (esp. deep ocean fish) far
outweigh the hazards of not eating them for the beneficial constituents they
contain (pollutants or not).  I think it is reasonable to  believe that man
grew up/evolved/lived (however you want to say it) by the sea, that he lived
at the land/sea interface and enjoyed the best of the foods from both
worlds.  I won't go into detail on that no.... I could suggest you also read
Crawford and Marsh's book *Nutrition & Evolution* Have you read that one
yet?

Btw:  Your are right, I am an ex-vegan with an attitude.  I come by it with
good reason.

Rachel Matesz