Soren Bergeson writes:
> I have been following the conversations you have had with several
> others on the list about the futility, hypocrisy (though I'm not
> sure you use this term in this context), and counter-productivity of
> protesting the spreading of capitalism in its existing forms, e.g:
>
> "I agree.  That is why I argue that activists should support the
> process of covering the world with western-style capitalism and
> democracy.  The western-style capitalist democracies advocate
> western-style capitalism and democracy for the whole world.  As in
> judo, use the opponent's force against him.  When western-style
> capitalism and democracy covers the world, it will stop fighting
> enemies because there won't be any enemies to be against.  In that
> state, evolution away from that system will be possible.  It is not
> possible when the whole force of western civilization is directed
> toward making it happen."
>
> Much of your argument seems to derive from this central tenet:
> fighting against capitalism will only make it stronger, and we must
> wait for a more opportune moment to begin reforming society.  I have
> to say that these kinds of arguments are eerily reminiscent of those
> used extensively in the American south to discourage civil rights
> protests.  In response, more people gathered together, risking life,
> limb, and family, and eventually did away with Jim Crow and
> segregation (though it is back again, stronger than ever,
> particularly in public schools).

I would correct a few of the points in your description:  Fighting
against capitalism won't "only make it stronger", although I do
believe it *will* make it stronger.  It will also prolong the
interregnum we are in now, which is the post-cold-war, "end of
history", which I see as being the period when capitalism spins out of
control.  Prolonging this iterregnum might even increase the total
suffering as compared to the suffering we would cause if we just get
it over with as soon as possible.  I don't think anybody is trying to
model this comparison yet, but it is a question worth asking.  How
much activism is actually required to turn the tide, if turning the
tide is even possible, and then, if it is possible, how long will it
take?

During this interregnum, I see the proper use of activism as
controling capitalism to prevent the "out of control" aspect.  By this
I mean stopping the destruction of the ozone, for example, and of the
forests and fisheries, demanding human rights for all (but not by
demanding that socialism or anarchism replace capitalism/"democracy"),
working to secure water rights, etc.

So the second point I would change is that I don't mean activists
should "wait for a more opportune moment".  The projects listed above
can't be delayed, and there are many others.  Nor are these projects
futile as I mean it.

As to whether the argument will discourage useful work, you'll have to
decide.  I say no.  I say it will free more resources to do useful
work.

> The real point of my post, however, is to ask you quite seriously
> what you think of this brief excerpt from a report on the run-up to
> WTO carnival in Seattle:
>
> "The "race to the bottom" philosophy of the WTO was
> confirmed by Michael Moore (director of the WTO) in a
> speech at UW just a few days prior on Oct. 1. In this
> speech, Moore stated that "world standards must come
> down to same level" before we can start building them
> up to a decent level globally."
>
> Moore was using this to justify the WTO's decision to force El
> Salvador to lower the minimum wage from 60 to 36 cents an hour.  Do
> you agree with this argument?  Does it jibe with your own?  It seems
> hard to fathom that someone would discourage a group that protests
> such terrifying measures.  Are you saying that protesters and
> activists should not have bothered with raising consciousness about
> sweatshops and child labor?  Just curious,

If he had argued that the world minimum wage should be raised to the
US minimum wage, then I would agree with his claim, so, no, I don't
agree with him.  I am not saying that activists should not raise
consciousness about these things.  Raising consciousness about these
things does not work against the spread of western-style capitalism
and democracy.

martin