At 02:46 PM 10/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Wade H. Reeser wrote:

<snip!>

>> I think it is a stretch to call modern animals "very" different and "very"
>> un-paleo.  Certainly the cow more resembles its ancestors than all of our
>> modern fruits and vegetables.
>
>What makes this certain?

It is unclear what you are asking.  I was basing this on appearance.  I
believe the number of generations of modern seed stock greatly exceeds that
of almost all domestic animal breeds.  What do ya mean by certain?  Do you
want an ontological argument?

>> It seems that fat is highly prized in most
>> traditional cultures and people went out of their way to secure it.  Inuit
>> would let their dogs eat the lean parts of animals they killed and focus on
>> the fatty meats.  (Fat of the Land, V steffanson)
>
>But the point has been made repeatedly, by experts such as
>Cordain and Eaton, that the *kind* of fats eaten by these people
>is significantly different from what most of us "supermarket
>hunters" are getting.

But the experts don't provide definitive evidence of problems with the
animal fats of domesticated animals.  It has only been in recent times
(1900's) that these domestic animal fats are being blamed for creating
these problems.  People seemed much healthier with respect to
athersclerosis and obesity before the advent of the vegetable oils that
plague us today and cooked in good, old-fashioned lard.

>> Most of the critisisms
>> of beef on this list tend to be speculative and backed by not much more
>> than the hot air behind them.  We need to be more exact.
>
>In reference to the point about fat above, scientific support for
>the criticisms has been given repeatedly.  Amadeus has frequently
>offered detailed nutritional analysis of various foods, and cites
>research to back his claims.

The 'scientific support' must be read critically which I think few here do.
 These are the same people that brought you trans-fatty acids and can't
make up there mind if salt is good or bad.

Actually his modus operendi has been to post a few nutritional refs from
the USDA database, mention some research available in obscure jounal in
German and not respond to criticisms.

>  I don't always agree with his
>conclusions but I respect his methods more than the seemingly
>endless litany of references to Stefannson.  Stefannson's work
>was important but he didn't have the last word, nor are his
>assertions immune to criticism.

I view Steffanson's work valuable for providing an example of a people who
were undeniably healthy eating prodigious amounts of fat and meat.  This is
a pretty stong argument for me compared to the various scientific
bumblings.  Which assertions are you refering to in particular?


<snip!>
>
>> Again, Inuit eat 80%
>> calories by fat.  What are we worrying about?  Are the altered fat profiles
>> in beef significant?
>
>It sure looks that way.  And we are not Inuit.  There is
>scientific evidence that the Inuit are metabolically *different*.

They do seem to suffer disproportionately from various disease when fed a
typical american diet.  What does this mean to you?  Or is the paper not
written yet...

>> Probably just eliminating
>> vegetable oils and eating fish a couple times a week would be sufficient.
>
>Eating fish a couple of times a week is not particularly paleo.

What does this mean?  Many people fished, some more than others.  There are
some arguements whether it was a significant amount of the daily diet which
are unresolved.


>> What else are we talking about?  Muscle is muscle, organs are organs and
>> have changed little in evolution.  The same cannot be said of different
>> vegetable and fruit hybrids.
>
>Regrettably, some of those organs, such as the liver, are also
>places where toxins are accumulated, as are the body oils of
>fish.  This further complicates the choices of someone who wants
>to emulate a paleo diet as closely as possible.

I have seen some of the literature for the problems with fish oils because
of pollution.  Do you have specific references to problems with organ meats
or are you just popping off some you heard.

<snip!>
>
>Todd Moody
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>

  Wade Reeser   [log in to unmask]