On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:24:22 -0700, Yoyo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


> I don't quite understand the point here. There is a difference between
>'need' and 'thrive'. ......
>.......This is not the same as proving we don't
>'need' protein in order to thrive.

In my understanding protein is a collection of 21 parts
the amino-acids, from which 8 are essential and must come from the food.
All plants contain all of these amino acids, and they are the same as from
meat.
The amounts of protein in plants and meats are comparable and they are
it in terms of quality (amino-acid profile or composition) and quantity
(percent of protein in a nut or a brain).

This is why animal protein is
 not be *needed* for humans.
It *may* be though, that some other factors from meats are necessary
or - especially in present times - beneficial.
For example Vitamin B12 can't be obtained from plants' -surfaces no more
in our times, because they have to be washed.
Other factors have been mentioned, and I think should be discussed further.
(Taurin, w-3-fats, zinc , an iron discussion is started).

Existing vegans needn't show protein deficiencies, I think some are here
on this list. They may be able to tell if they had protein deficiency
symptoms. Or why they switched over to animal proteins.

>I never tire of meat and the bod never has a bad reaction. All my
>'symptoms' go away..no heartburn, no bloating, no allergies, no joint
>pains...no wildly swinging bloodsugars.
I also recall that a sole peace of meat had a good effect on me in former
times, as opposed to a mixture of baked or else f
ood items.

I think that quite many suffer from allergies on food-items
on grain base (I've red of about a potential of about 30% in western
societies).
Especially for these it could be important, or at least easing the
diet, to eat meat.
I didn't hear yet, that such allergies were wiedspread in ancient times though
a *very* high grain consumation is reported.
So i don't consider it a paleolithic/neolithic problem.
I suspect that other factors than the food (grain) itself generate the allergy
problems (maybe environmental poisons or vitamin depletion over years).

>If vegetarianism works for you and you are well and strong and thriving
>then so be it and I am glad for you. I have seen some reviews which
>indicate that it doesn't last for many years. That some young people may
>have the stamina and recuperative ability to maintain an inadequate diet
>is probably true but not good eviden
ce in the long run.
Yoyo, I do so because my feelings guide me so. But I'm not vegan.
That means I *do* eat animal proteins in the form of white cheese
(mostly goat), although only a little.
The same applies for my two children of age 14 and 12 which are
very big and strong for their age. BTW, they are also energetic
and good humored.

I'm tired too of all that sour-loocking veg*ans somehow
restricting themselves because of some theoretical thoughts, but
without heart.
Arrghh.. another time a veg. discussion came up :-(

regards
Amadeus