Robert A. McGlohon, Jr. wrote:
>Amadeus,
>        Perhaps it is time you start your own list, one for meat-free
>        Neandernuts.  You could even write your own book.
>Cheers,
>Robert
Robert, it seems you don't like to discuss anymore about the
meat issue in paleolicic diets, and don't like any criticism on meat?
Is this a "holy cow" (in a double sense)?
I am indeed thinking about writing a book about paleolithic diet
in todays times.
But I would really miss many interesting and thought provocing posts
and arguments of many on this list if I'd "start my own list".
I'd really like to read more of your _arguments_.

As you couldn't miss my intention to work against the
oversimplification "eat steaks, thats paleolithic",
I _don't_want to propagate an animal free nutrition.
That's a different topic.
I would like to find out more about real paleolithic nutrition
and best practice of it in present days.
One outcome up to now is for me:
Better "go nuts" as go meat. (*g*)
I think this will be more paleolithic
and more healthy indeed.

Ilya wrote:
>> Most cattle are fed eather exclusively "concentrated feed stuff"
>> (grains, fish remains or animal waste) or at least during a long time
>> of the year they get most of the proteins added from farmed stuff (or waste).
>This is too much of a generalization. Where I live (Boston) you can go
>to any of a number of stores (e.g. Bread and Circus) and get beef that
>has been raised not only without hormones or pesticides, but range fed
>(grass) rather than grain/feed fed.
>Ilya
Didn't i say that? Eating organic meat -as you say- should be the least.
Angus is meat from free range cows eating grass outside.
But even they get something else. We got to know it, when even Angus
calves got BSE because they had been fed - meat.

Hans Kylberg wrote:
>Should there be no restriction on veggies? Shouldnt it be only
>wild plants?
I wanted my sentence about game meat to be understood only for the
meat paragraph.
My own complete list would of course put  restricions on
veggies as well.
For example... I'd demand organically produced veggies
at least as the dominating part.
I'd demand strong restrictions on genetical modified plants.
Wheat, strawberries, tomatoes, many plants
have been drastically genetically modified in the last
20 years - by selection, not genetic engeneering.
Same applies to livestock. A modern milk cow for example
can't even survive without concentrated feed stuff.

>Why dont You add the complete h/g lifestyle to Your list?
My suggestion was only one personal _add_ to the existing list.
IMHO an important one.

>The question of insects has been discussed, do You have any practical
>suggestions? Where do I get some fresh grubs? How do I eat them?
>Dont You think we are aware of these problems? Read the archives!
I spent many hours reading the archives.
I think the problem of the insects is not how to eat them,
present h/g's like chimps eat them raw just as they are.
My problem, like that of most western people would be the disgust
about eating a spider or a worm from the garden.
And what about an eye or raw brain or other organ from a deer?
>But also be practical! We can dream the perfect paleodiet, but we
>have to do something possible out of it.  (...)
>I am sorry, I do not find Your critic really constructive.
I admit that i was not as serious with the insects, as you already
discussed it. With my sentence i wanted to point to the
disgust problem. First humans shure had it. Nuts don't give it.

I was disturbed by Ray complaining about the aflatoxins in grains
that the "bad agriculturalists again produced", and in the same breath
promote eating pigs. These are big arguments against pigs.
But producing meat in significant amounts requires heavy
agriculture (You can easily compute that).

Of course the problem is to find a practical solution.
I think the solution needn't be found in relying on farmed meats.
Discussion has shown (I recall posts at paleodiet from the
outstanding Loren Cordaine) that the fats from farmed meats are
very counterproductive for health. Paleolithic meats were different.

If you let nuts and seeds be your meat, then practicability problem
suddenly is no more.

regards and thank you for listening
Amadeus