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I started this discussion when I wrote the following:

> ...as soon as I cut [milk] out of my diet for short while I noticed two
> things: 1. I am really severely intolerant to milk....2. it not only hits
> me in the usual method in the GI tract, but it also affects my urinary
> tract.
>
> I had always had to urinate frequently....as soon as I switched to lactose
> free milk....I quit going so often....I dropped the Lactaid 100 from my
> diet; that cut my trips to the bathroom again by half....has anyone else
> noticed such problems or am I completely eccentric in this aspect?

I got several responses from both men and women saying they had the same or
similar problems. Surprisingly, many also said they had the same problem
with gluten accidents. Perhaps someone needs to look into this. The
following posts, each paragraph from a different person, are typical of
those I received. -vance

My son and I are both undiagnosed celiacs (pseudo-celiacs?).  We are also
dairy and soy intolerant.  He is 8 and when he ingests gluten accidently (or
dairy), he goes to the bathroom constantly.  He also will wet the bed
sometimes up to 3 times each night when he gets gluten, although he never has
accidents the rest of the time.  When he gets gluten, in addition to the
other more usual celiac symptoms, even when he goes to the bathroom before
bedtime, restricts drinking in the evening, and gets up to go in the night,
he will still have an accident, usually several nights in a row until the
dairy or gluten gets out of his system.  This only occurs when he has had an
accidental gluten ingestion, and not at other times.  I also find that I need
to go to the bathroom frequently when I accidently ingest gluten or dairy.

My brother has the same problem.  He was horribly teased all through grade
school because he just couldn't hold it that long and teachers were not
sympathetic to his frequent requests to be excused.  When he was 13, our
grandmother suggested he might be allergic to milk, and voila!  No more
incontinence.  My 6-year old son seems to have the same problem.  As long as
he's 100% dairy free, he's fine.  But feed the kid so much as a Dorito and
he's going to need a couple of changes of clothes before the day is out, and
better send some for the next day, too.

I have a problem called an Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). It is caused
when the smooth muscles in the bowel contract in front of and behind a
waste matter. This causes intense pain. These same kind of contractions
can occur in the urethra (tube that caries urine from the bladder) causing
incomplete emptying of the bladder. This can be triggered by allergies or
stress. I also have this problem as a result of stress. I think it is
great that you can control it without taking medication.

I am the one with gluten enteropathy, and my husband doesn't have the CD
[celiac disease].  However, he has ALWAYS maintained that after big bowls of
ice cream, which is about the only milk product he consumes, that he would
live in the bathroom, the reason that he would make frequent trips to the
bathroom all night long.  Well, the doctors thought he was crazy, and quite
frankly, even I did, too.  Now after your post, I realize that my husband was
right on target.  I can't wait for him to get home to show him your post.  It
will be the first validation he has had.  He has been through the prostate
surgery and is really having problems, but his drs won't even consider the
possibility of CD or lactose problems.  Since he has been in the retirement
center, he has increased his consumption of cottage cheese by ten-fold or
more.  The drs say his diabetes explains everything.  They refuse to look
further.

Thanks for bringing up this association between milk and urinary
frequency. I have always loved milk too, and even with lactose
intolerance find it hard to give up dairy products, but I've noticed
I go to the bathroom a lot more some days than others, when my
overall fluid intake is always about the same. I'll start watching to
see if my MILK intake (I use Lactaid 100 in my coffee, eat yogurt,
etc.) is the culprit. I'll let you know if I notice any relationship.

interesting observations, Vance.  I have been cheating with cream in my coffee
for the past 2 months and think I have noticed myself making more trips to the
Ladies Room while at work, and getting up more at night.   Now I have more
incentive to go totally dairy free.  Thanks again for your comments.

Funny you should comment  about frequent trips to the bathroom.  When I was
quite ill before being diagnosed with CD about 11 years ago I found the
same frustrating problem.  After going gluten and dairy free it has largely
disappeared - except every now and again.  There seems to be some trigger
that sets me going, as if I had taken a diuretic.  I have wondered whether
it is related to an allergic reaction or something, but haven't managed to
pinpoint anything.  Bit of a nuisance, however the last checkup of the
prostate and, etc. was all OK.

I am not sure if I have such problems or not.  but when I was a child, I had
big problems with diarrhea and vomiting and also the urinary thing.  I wet
my pants more often then not up to the age of about 8 when I got quicker to
get to the bathroom.  I always thought that something there was not quite my
fault. I had simply no control over it.  But I see I definite connection
between gluten accidents and having to spurt to the bathroom to pee, not
just diarrhea.   I Wonder how those things are connected.  I am glad, you
asked the question.  Maybe we can find a pattern there that is not
considered at this time.

Thanks for your post - you have struck a chord here!
I had the frequency like you, with a slight variation.  My biopsy
first showed up negative for CD but proved lactose and sucrose
intolerance.  This was when I was about 35.  I had been urinating
about  every hour for the previous 20 years but for a lot of the
time it was accompanied by extreme pain like a cutting knife.
I drastically reduced my milk intake to about one or two coffees
a week and drank soy most of the time.  A few years later
I changed to another gastroenterologist as I suspected there was
something more to be discovered.  I still had the bladder pain and
frequency (together with several CD symptoms which were assumed
by the first doctor to be due to the lactose/sucrose problem .
The new doctor immediately  suspected CD as apparently when
the biopsy shows up deficiencies for both enzymes, it is usually a
marker pointing to CD.  The first doctor only took one.
The second took seven, and this biopsy proved positive for four
samples and negative for three.  He said this result proved his
conviction that one sample is useless.
        He also predicted that within one week of eating GF, my bladder
pain would reduce by 50%.  He was right.  The frequency did remain
but I admit to still  having a cappucino or two each week as the lactose
count had come back to normal.  The pain and frequency has taken
about three years to reduce to practically normal.   Every so often though,
I may have a day of frequency.  The other thing I have noticed that may
have helped the pain problem was to drink more water.   However, I am
intrigued by your speculation about milk.  I hadn't made the connection
to suspect milk  as a cause of the bladder problems, rather than
recovering from 41 years as an undiagnosed celiac.   Maybe it's the
milk protein as well.  It will be interesting to read the summary later on.
Thank you for this, I am now speculating about whether it would be
better to be as vigilant with milk as I am with gluten.
        As an extra point to maybe speculate about and add to your theory  -
I visited a urologist several years ago about the pain.  When I described
it and after he examined me he pronounced that it was interstitial
cystitis (sometimes also referred to as "mast cell cystitis".  From what
I remember this is due to the tissue surrounding the bladder and
urethra being "leaky" so that if you have ingested something that you
are allergic to, the fluid from this allergen leaks through this tissue
and creates inflammation.   Mast cells congregate around this area
in an immune response.  The pain can sometimes last for 20-30
minutes.  (Then you have to urgently go to the toilet yet again and it
starts all over again.)  The pain is like sitting on a red hot barbed wire
fence and being zapped by electricity.
        My worst ever experience was from having a pizza, which was why I
believed my gastroenterologist when he predicted that the symptoms
would reduce.
        When I first started to see the term "leaky gut" used to describe CD
I immediately wondered if there is a connection with interstitial
cystitis.  The urinary system is so close to the small intestine that it
seems feasible that both areas could exhibit a similar characteristic
i.e. being "leaky".  Hope this is helpful.

Yes, I've noticed a similar problem - not really frequency, but urgency.
I thought it was tied to accidental ingestion of gluten, but then, that's
what gives me the lactose problems.  So it may be the lactose.
Interesting observation.