On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Richard Geller wrote:

> Todd Moody wrote:
> >
> > it
> > is yet to be shown that significant weight loss can be achieved
> > without a caloric deficit (except in people with metabolic
> > disorders such as diabetes, which may involve substantial
> > excretion of fats).
>
> Todd, what about ketogenic diets like Atkins? Atkins calls it metabolic
> advantage when the body secretes ketones through
> urine/breath/perspiration. This certainly seems like excretion of fats.
> Lots of people eat a lot of calories and lose weight this way. You can
> do the same on Neanderthin if you eliminate the fruit, for instance.

The amount of fat excreted as ketones is trivial.  These diets
work because by excluding carbs they tend to be somewhat lower in
calories and they are hormonally favorable to fat loss.  The fat
in the diets seems to bring about satiety, and people eat less.
This is a good thing, but it doesn't show that weight loss is
possible while eating unlimited calories.

Look, I am a believer in the many benefits of low-carb eating,
but it is simply a myth that ketosis guarantees weight loss.

Your body has energy needs.  It will attempt to adjust these
needs to match its fuel supply.  If you want to lose body fat,
then your body must get some of its fuel from that stored fat,
and it must do so at a rate that is faster than the rate at which
it is storing fat.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the most energy your body
can use in a day, at your current activity level, is 3,000
calories.  Suppose that you are eating 4,000 calories a day on a
ketogenic diet.  Will you excrete ketones?  Yes.  Will you burn
body fat faster than you store it?  No.  Is it "impossible to
store fat in ketosis because there is no insulin available to
facilitate its storage"?  No.  Protein stimulates insulin
release.  Ketones stimulate insulin release.  If you are diabetic
and there is no insulin around, things will be different and you
will have other problems to contend with.  But in non-diabetic
individuals, there is *always* insulin around to facilitate fat
storage.  Glucagon releases stored fat, but *on demand*.  Even
the Eades, of _Protein Power_, concede that calories count.  The
body's energy needs are not fixed, but they are not infinitely
elastic either.

The added benefit of a ketogenic diet for weight loss is that it
is a protein-sparing diet, and this is an important benefit.
Studies of isocaloric diets do show that lower-carb diets do
result in somewhat greater fat loss, but they don't show that
weight loss is possible with unlimited calories.

> > I think the simple explanation for this plateau is that I have
> > reached an equilibrium point, where my body can readily adjust
> > its energy use to my intake.  To lose weight, I will have to
> > create a *slight* caloric deficit.
>
> If you really wanted to lose weight, Todd, restrict the carbs.

Been there, done that.  I recently did a month of ketosis and
didn't lose a pound.  I wasn't paying attention to calories.
As you know, plateaus are common on all diets, including Atkins.
This is because as people lose weight their energy needs tend to
fall faster than their appetites, unfortunately.

> Also, are
> you _really_ overweight? Perhaps the weight is turning from fat to lean
> body mass. This way of eating seems to cause the body to spontaneously
> redistribute from fast to lean body mass over an extended period of
> time, regardless of excercise levels. And of course fat weighs a lot
> less than muscle.

As I said, I'm about 15 pounds overweight.  It's not much, but
it's also not hard to see where the 15 pounds live.  I'm not
particularly desperate to lose this weight in a hurry.  I'll keep
experimenting until I find the way that works.

Todd Moody
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