On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Aaron Sugarman wrote:

> On the subject of neotony, which I am beginning to find fascinating, I have
> some questions...
>
> 1.  Where did modern cows come from? What animal?

I think the animals were called "aurochs."

> 4.  What happens when poodles live in the wild for 15 generations?

Assuming they could last that long, I suppose they would continue
to be poodles unless and until they inter-breed with wolves.

> 5.  As some humans live in the wild, their 'neotony' would seem to be
> tool/culture based?  Culture prevents maturity at the same time that it is
> creative?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.  I don't think living in
the wild has anything to do with it.  Neoteny refers to the
prolongation of the immature state.  Within a given population,
individuals will mature at somewhat different rates.  When there
is an advantage in slower maturation, this creates selection
pressure in favor of it.

Normally, it is not much of an advantage, because creatures are
more vulnerable during the immature period.  Among humans,
however, the argument is that neoteny was an advantage because it
extended the time available for brain growth, effectively raising
the cognitive "ceiling" of our species.

Once neoteny was established in humans, it became advantageous
*to* humans to encourage neoteny in other species.  As Ray
pointed out, domestic wheat is neotenous compared to wild
varieties.  The grains stay on the stalk longer, making them
easier to harvest, etc.  I don't think it is correct, however to
conceive of a domesticated creature as simply a permanently
immature version of an earlier creature.  Neoteny refers to the
extended duration of the immature state.  It doesn't explain
everything about domestication.  As far as I know, dogs and
wolves mature at the same rate. I don't think dogs are neotenized
wolves, but rather wolves that have been subject to the selection
pressures of human company and thus domesticated by an
evolutionary process distinct from neoteny.

> 7.  Why are Down's Syndrome considered neotony?

I'm not aware that anyone other than Ray espouses this theory.
I'd be very interested in reading some source literature on it.

Interestingly, IQ tests measure the rate of cognitive maturation,
rather than eventual performance levels.  In a child, the higher
the IQ, the less "cognitive neoteny."

Todd Moody
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