On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:26:52 -0400, Todd Moody <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Amadeus Schmidt wrote:
>
>> Weight loss on a paleo-diet comes from the better supply on fromerly
>> lacking vitamins or minerals which were therefore controlling eating.
>
>This claim makes the assumption that overweight people are that
>way because they eat more than other people.  Despite numerous
>attempts, this assumption has resisted empirical confirmation.
Yes, I think they really eat more in caloric terms _although_
they are feeling to be hungry and still have carvings and therefore
think to be eating little (most people on diet report diet "sins").

But also
 it may be the case that incomplete vitamin supplementation
hinders the proper use of ingested calories.
For example calories can possibly not be used for proper burning/heating
because of a vitamin lack. (B1 is needed for burning of carbs, right?)
This may cause storage instead of use.

>
>Furthermore, this implies that vitamin supplementation ought to
>have an appetite suppressing effect.  I am not aware that it
>does.
Yes, I'd expect that, provided that we knew all vitamins (and vitaminoids),
get really active versions of them, and really _all_ of them every day.
Some are harder to get (folic acid deteriorates quick).

Thanks for your "burn out" ideas.

>There are hints
>that refined carbohydrates could bring this about.
>> My conclusions for paleo-food followers are:
>>
>> - no farmed meat (better none)
>
>How is none different f
rom "no" farmed meat?
With "no farmed meat" i mean: take vitamin-richer game meat.
with "none" i meant: better _only_ game meat.
Since organs are much richer in vitamins also organs (brain,liver)
instead of muscle might be the right direction.

Every peace of cow muscle will satisfy ones protein needs *without*
supplying the vitamins needed with. Bad thing is that our protein
digestion ability is limited, so we can't compensate it by adding other
protein-rich food (like lots of vegetables).

IMO this can lead to large scale consumption of refined carbohydrates,
and it does so in the "normal" western diet.
Reason: proteins are already comeing from daily meat (abt 250grams),
but still calories are missing. Now: how to get your energy _without_
adding more proteins?
Well it _is_ done presently by sugar, refined grains, pure carbs, bad fats.
But these are not comeing wi
th vitamins.
And sugars cause a kind of addiction,
I refer to your statements about burnout and refined carbohydrates.

Way out for paleos:
- Energy from fruit and/or good fats (not pigs and cattle fat).
- Using vitamin extreme plants (carrot cabbage spinach acerola)
- much plant food (more vitamins per _calorie_, otherwise you need more
                   calories for your vitamins :-)  )

regards

Amadeus