On Sun, 27 Dec 1998, LAMENDEZ wrote:

> How would the "televisor" concept differ from taking a friend, volunteer or
> paid reader/describer along?

In the case of using prisoners, they are not allowed to come along with
you. As for others, I don't have a stable of people who are at my disposal
to accompany me. Further, a televisor could be sitting in front of a bank
of screens and guide the person who needs help at any moment that he needs
it. Besides prisoners, people who are bound to home, bed or a wheelchair
might find that this is a great way of accompanying a blind person without
the requirement of mibility.

 One would still have to rely on the eyes of
> another without the immediacy or even warmth of personal contact.

Some personal warmth could come from a televisor, though being arm-in-arm
with a person could be nicer. If you have any people willing to escort me
at my will, please forward their numbers.

 Still, I > have to admit that I look forward to the development of
artificial > intelligence based technologies capable of generating
accurate description.
>  For me, one of the real challenges of being blind has been having to
> accept the necessity of relying on someone else's eyes to accomplish some
> tasks..
>
Now it sounds like you are willing to rely on someone else's eyes. With a
televisor, you would only be relying on his eyes and voice. He can keep
his body wherever is convenient for him.

Peter Seymour > ----------
> > From: Peter Seymour <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: tech: seeing eye software
> > Date: Friday, December 25, 1998 4:47 AM
> >
> > This technology sounds interesting. It seems that the goal is to
> represent
> > visual data in an aural form. I would like to be in on the development
> > because I have always represented aural information in visual images and
> > words.
> >
> > Sound often borrows the vocabulary of analogy. For instance, pitches are
> > called high or low, when they are neither. They are faster or slower
> > frequencies. Tambres are called bright or dark. Tempos are called fast or
> > slow, when they are not moving at all. Distorted sounds are called fuzzy
> > and other sounds are smooth or clear. The piano has a soto voce, or soft
> > voice, pedal to make it quieter, and a damper pedal to make the sound
> > sustain - and how is that making it wet?
> >
> > I could go on and on, but my point is that we are very used to
> > representing the quality of sound in tactile and visual terms, and sheet
> > music is a graphical or spatial representation of sound, described with
> > Italian words for "dry," "walking," "stolen," and "cheerful," which
> > relates a tempo to a mood.
> >
> > I think it is about time to try the opposite: to find aural
> > representations of tactile and visual elements. Bats spray their
> > surroundings with variously pitched tones, and the map that they
> construct
> > based on the reflections is so accurate that they pluck insects out of
> the
> > pitch black night sky. If we could do one fiftieth as well, it would be
> > quite useful.
> >
> > That being said, I prefer my earlier solution: wearing a miniature camera
> > and speaking to a person at a monitor who seeing the world from a blind
> > person's lapel.
> >
> > My brother told me that coverage of baseball games now show the pitch
> from
> > the catcher's point of view. He has a very small camera mounted on his
> > mask, and it obviously doesn't have a wire or heavy transmitter attached
> > to it.
> >
> > I would like to walk around my neighborhood with such a camera on my
> lapel
> > and an earphone and microphone. The person watching my monitor could
> > describe the Christmas windows, guide me down the right aisle in the
> > supermarket and even read the ingredients on a can to me. I could browse
> > at Barnes and Noble, sit down at a table with my coffee and turn the
> pages
> > in front of the lens as my monitor reads to me. The freedom that it would
> > give to me would be the next best thing to seeing.
> >
> > I even know a good source of willing and free "televisors."
> > People in prisons could be required to serve as part of their sentence,
> or
> > they could do so to get community service or good behavior credit. They
> > might also volunteer so that they can vicariously walk around like a free
> > man.
> >
> > As with selecting guide dogs, a visually impaired person could be matched
> > up with a narrator/translator who suits him or her best. The
> possibilities
> > of a televisor for describing movies without disturbing my neighbor, to
> > help me find where I misplaced something, or even to recognize the faces
> > of people I know at a party are exciting.
> >
> > I recently went to a party where I knew about a fifth of the people
> there.
> > The host wanted to take my cane because I knew her apartment and could
> get
> > around without it. But I kept it in order to signal to the strangers that
> > I can't see them, which could facilitate our encounter. There was a
> buffet
> > table that I couldn't handle with grace and, as a vegetarian, I won't
> grab
> > whatever is there. A televisor could have given me a fluency in that
> > setting that would have made me feel like I can see again, and no
> > technology could ever come close.
> >
> > Equally important, the necessary technology (miniature cameras,
> > microphones and earphones, a connection via cell phone technology, and an
> > interactive monitor with audio) is already here. Further, the training
> > time to use it would be less than hour.
> >
> > I don't know how many of you this appeals to, but I'd like to get some
> > feed-back.
> >
> > Sorry about the long posting, and have a great Christmas.
> >
> >  Peter Seymour
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, John Mattioli wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > >         Two interesting things about this posting...
> > >
> > > 1. The software is free for download: really, from where?  I'd love to
> see
> > > it.
> > >
> > > 2. A built in color identifier?  Really?  You mean I can download this
> > > software, purchase a camera and have a color identifier?  Cool!
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: VICUG-L: Visually Impaired Computer Users' Group List
> > > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kelly Pierce
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 6:38 AM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: tech: seeing eye software
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those without mail readers that offer clickable url's,
> > > > such as Pine
> > > > 4.0 or greater, here's Peter Meijer's article about the
> > > > software that he
> > > > talked about in a post a few weeks ago.
> > > >
> > > > kelly=20
> > > >
> > > > from Wired News
> > > >
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Seeing-Eye Software
> > > >    by Kristen Philipkoski=20
> > > >    3:00 a.m.  24.Nov.98.PST
> > > >    A new software program aims to help people see with their ears.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Peter Meijer, of the Philips Research Laboratories in the
> > > > Netherlands,
> > > >    built Voice Learning Edition software to translate video into
> > > >    high-definition stereo sound in close to real time.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Voice requires the user to learn a whole new language of subtle
> > > >    sounds. Noises change pitch and resonance if a color is bright or
> a
> > > >    building is close, so the user must be able to distinguish between
> > > >    nuances of sound.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Meijer set up an online program for the blind to help him evaluate
> > > >    Voice. He also gets feedback from an evaluation project at the
> > > >    Institute for Innovative Blind Navigation.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    "Talking to blind users directly is very valuable [in
> > > > order] to guide
> > > >    further technical progress," he said. But the Internet
> > > > offered Meijer
> > > >    a whole new approach to testing tools for the blind.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    "In the past, we first had to convince institutions for
> > > > the blind that
> > > >    the proposed approach could be interesting, which often led only
> to
> > > >    discussing opinions about what needs and interests the blind may
> > > >    have," he said. "Today, we can communicate directly with potential
> > > >    blind users, and let them decide ... whether they are interested."
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Based on the feedback, Meijer said he continuously
> > > > improves the system
> > > >    and is now working to help users understand Voice's language.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Nolan Crabb, a spokesman for the American Council of the
> > > > Blind, said
> > > >    he believes Voice is well-intended, but he isn't convinced of its
> > > >    practicality.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    "This would be better for people who lose their sight than
> > > > for people
> > > >    who were blind always," said Crabb, who was born blind. He
> > > > added that
> > > >    walking around with headphones could be dangerous for blind
> people.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    "You still need a lot of your hearing to know what the
> > > > world is doing
> > > >    around you, to hear things like traffic, construction," he said.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    In 1993, Meijer came out with the prototype for Voice -- a
> > > >    helmet-like, mono-sound piece of hardware. It never went into
> > > >    production.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    The latest version, released in January, functions on Windows and
> > > >    requires a PC camera, a Pentium processor, and stereo headphones.
> > > >    While the accessories may seem prohibitive, the software is free
> to
> > > >    download.
> > > >    In March, Meijer added color identification to the system, which
> > > >    already featured zoom, inverse video, and slow and fast motion. An
> > > >    open interface for third-party developers was developed in
> > > > September.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    It remains to be seen how functional Voice is for most people.
> > > >   =20
> > > >    "There could be important bottlenecks in hearing, brain
> processing,
> > > >    and brain plasticity, but also in motivation during
> > > > training, Meijer
> > > >    said. "Results may depend on whether one is congenitally blind or
> > > >    became blind later in life," he said. "But sometimes simple things
> > > >    like color detection or finding a bright window may turn out to be
> > > >    useful. It doesn't have to be full-fledged vision to have
> > > > some merit."
> > > >   =20
> > > >    Crabb said, "The day we can use talking or brailled information
> and
> > > >    GPS [Global Positioning Satellite] to give us an idea of
> > > > where we are,
> > > >    then we will have achieved some incredible steps
> > > > forward.... Any kind
> > > >    of increased mobility can be a good thing."
> > > >
> > > >    Copyright =A9 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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>
> VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> To join or leave the list, send a message to
> [log in to unmask]  In the body of the message, simply type
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>  VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
> http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
>
>


VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
To join or leave the list, send a message to
[log in to unmask]  In the body of the message, simply type
"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the quotations.
 VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html