Hi guys, many of us seem to have similar histories, so I thought I'd put
in my 2 cents here:

I came to lowcarb via Atkins.  was 350+lbs 40+%bf.  Through assorted
combinations of straight low/no-carb ala Atkins and cyclic keto diets
coupled with strength training, I lost 80+lbs.  Everything stopped for
months.  I came to Neaderthin because after my Atkins experienced it
dawned on me for the first time just what an incredible impact diet has
on general health.  I wasn't feeling better JUST because I'd lost so
much weight, but because I wasn't eating the crap I had been for so long.
So I got to thinking "gee, a diet free of processed food must be *even better*!"

So far, it has been, and here are some specific comments related to how I got
my weight loss moving again (albeit slowly):

On 02-Apr-98 Todd Moody wrote:
>
> Neanderthin tells us to reject thermodynamic thinking and so not
> to think about calories.  Up to a point, I believe this is
> correct.  The relation between calories in, calories out, and
> weight is not at all linear.  But that doesn't mean there is no
> relationship at all.

absolutely there is a relationship.  I think the relationship is different
for naturally lean and naturally obese people as well.  If you've been overfat
since you were very young, chances are you aren't as good at "burning off"
excess calories.   ie. lean people tend to show greater increases in RMR after
high-cal meals than those with childhood onset obesity.

> Weight loss is as unnatural as weight gain.  It's not something
> that the body was really meant to do.

amen.

> When we have a lot of weight to lose and go on a low-carb or
> paleo diet, here is what I think happens:  Because of the
> anorexic effect of the low-carb program, we eat substantially
> less than before, so we lose weight.  As others have pointed out,

yes...initially.

> as we lose weight our caloric expenditure drops.  So at some
> point we enter the equilibrium window, as it seems you did in
> April.

yes. this seems almost universal amongst those with lots to lose.

> Now it gets tricky.  If you start consuming fewer calories, your
> body will oblige by burning fewer, each minute of the day.  There
> is, of course, a lower limit to this, beyond which you cannot go
> without losing weight.  The trouble is, to go beyond this lower
> limit will probably involve hunger, which makes long-term success
> unlikely.

This is the kiss of death for me. *SO* many times I've fallen back into the
"eat less = lose more fat" mindset!  What always happens is that not only do
I lose less (sometimes I can gain) but I feel like absolute crap.   Keeping
calories up is the best thing I know how to do for my general feeling of
wellbeing...AND I lose when I "pig out" :-)  My personal goal is to NEVER
have to eat LESS.

>
> What is needed, of course, is a way to achieve a *small* caloric
> deficit without slowing down the rate at which the body uses
> calories.  How is this done?

exercise.

> Well, I'm not sure.  I have exactly the same problem as you,
> except I am somewhat closer to my goal weight.  I haven't lost
> any weight since maybe August.  Until just recently.  I think the
> exercise variable is the key.  I have been trying to apply Art De

bingo.  same for me.  I've given up on excruciating exercise, now I just walk
or ride my bike leisurely for an hour or so a few times a week.  It's worked
wonders.  Another thing that seems to work very repeatably for me is to
eat high-cal (which for me means high-fat) for a few weeks, then drop cals
pretty low for about a week, then repeat.  I don't think one week is enough
time for the starvation response to kick in, so I can "sneak in" a cal deficit
of 500-1000 cals a day (I normally eat ~4000cals/day, I weigh 265lbs)

This strikes me now as being similar (well, sort of) to what Todd was
talking about cycling exercise.  Doing the same thing over and over (whether
eating or exercise) never gets me anywhere.  shake things up a bit.  never
eat fruit?  go stuff yourself with fruit.  you'll have a good time, give
your metabolism a spark, and let's face it: restricting foods isn't fun,
and a one-time binge is not going to set you back more than a day or so.  In
fact, I have to think that it's a very hunter/gatherer way to eat.  I know
if *I* came across a boatload of fruit and I couldn't carry it, I'd sit
down and eat it all. :-)

One more thing:  I think most people grossly underestimate their daily
caloric needs.  One of the biggest revelations of my life came when I
started eating MUCH more than I was:  I felt better, started losing weight
again, had more energy, etc.  Obviously there is a limit to this, but I
find that when eating good foods (ala paleo) I can modulate my eating by
my natural instincts.  ie, when I need to eat I feel hungry, when I don't,
I don't :-)

Hope one more data point helps someone,
Sean