Martin William Smith wrote:

[...]
>I thought that's what a publicly owned structure is.  I include all
>the people as workers, since their taxes help fund the system,
>whatever it is, and help pay the salaries of the people who actually
>work there.  Again, you appear to be ever increasing restrictions in
>the definition of what is a socialist structure so that it will always
>be something that won't be widely implemented, and I am left to
>conclude that your purpose is to avoid actually implementing it so you
>can always enjoy the fellowship of your opposition movement.

I do wish you would pay attention Martin. Everybody keeps trying to explain
to you that socialism is a macro economic *system*, its not a micro
management style, it can't be applied to individual enterprises, because
they have to operate in a capitalist economic environment.

You can't just start producing things and giving them to anyone who needs
them within the capitalist economic system, even if you have the resources
of a nation state. The economy is an integrated whole.

[...]

>> They do not, and never ever will.  The grunts in the
>> army have little or no control over their lives... do you think they
>> *elect* to be totally subserviant to their superior officers?
>
>You have a low opinion of these "grunts", who are, after all, citizens
>with equal standing in law if not in fortune.

They aren't permitted to form a trade union, they cannot resign their jobs
at any time, the working conditions are a damn sight more dangerous than
would be permitted in any other industry. Need I go on? Citizens of equal
standing indeed. They can't stand for parliament here in Australia either.


> They should receive
>higher pay.
>
>> Furthermore, the military *can not* be isolated from everyone else.
>
>But that is exactly the opposite of what I was doing.  You are the one
>who isolated them from everyone else.  I have said from the beginning
>that the members of the military are also citizens.  As citizens they
>own the military.

Only in theory. They don't control it, so they don't own it. In Australia
the military is not subject to democratic control, its commander-in-chief
is the Governor-General, our head of state who is appointed by the Queen of
England.
>
>> They are not an economic system - they are merely a part of
>> one... any more than an individual corporation is an economic system
>> in and of itself.
>
>What does that point prove?

It proves that you cannot be a little bit socialist. Pay attention in class
Martin!

Bill Bartlett
Bracknell tas