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Date: | Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:11:30 -0500 |
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Hi, Mag,
I don't think it's new, either; just that people feel freer to speak up
about it.
Having said that, I'll make a couple of personal observations from my
own experience.
1) I don't see anything wrong with a smack on the bottom - I do see a
lot wrong with spanking and whipping. My mother smacked me a few times
but my dad never did. He didn't have to. One look and one look of
disappointment was all the punishment I needed from him to stop what I
was doing.
2) I have seen times when what started out as a spanking became so bad
that I would call it brutalizing a child. That's when the police need
to be called in.
Kat
Tamar Raine wrote:
> DV is not new! it's ALWAYS existed, but it's only the last couple decades we knew how much it messes kids up.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> Tamar Mag Raine
> [log in to unmask]
> www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 7:05:00 PM
> Subject: Re: email was not working on spanking
>
> i'll let those reading the post(above 35 years old)
> decide if they believe it is true or not.
>
> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>> It is not lack of spanking that has brought on the
>> problems we are
>> seeing now. It is many things that are rapidly
>> changing in society.
>>
>> At 08:47 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>> historically it has worked quite well. i can
>>>
>> see
>>
>>> more people who it has worked with than those it
>>>
>> has
>>
>>> not worked with. lack of it in the past 30-40 years
>>> has brought on more violence than ever before.
>>> i will not sit by and have average parents who
>>>
>> swat
>>
>>> an unruly child on the bottom as sex abusers and
>>> brutalizers. i'll point up the deceptive tactic
>>>
>> every
>>
>>> time i see it used.
>>> you are probably right in that it does not
>>>
>> further
>>
>>> "your" goals. but then again i and many other
>>>
>> parents
>>
>>> have not made it your responsibility to raise our
>>> children. nor do we want the role taken by the
>>> government.
>>> actually finding anything other than links (many
>>> just ads) is pretty hard on what came up when i
>>> clicked nospank.org
>>> . i am happy that you are going to give me
>>>
>> permission
>>
>>> to disagree.
>>>
>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ken we have agreed to disagree before and I am
>>>>
>> not
>>
>>>> surprised you do
>>>> not agree. I would like to see laws passed
>>>>
>> making it
>>
>>>> a crime to
>>>> punish children in this manner. I am against
>>>> corporal punishment. It
>>>> does not work. It does not further the goals I
>>>>
>> have
>>
>>>> for society. I
>>>> actually threw it out as a trial balloon to see
>>>>
>> what
>>
>>>> you guys
>>>> thought. I didn't say ALL, I said most. If I
>>>>
>> said
>>
>>>> all I misstate I am
>>>> almost always careful to use qualifying words
>>>> especially when
>>>> throwing out controversial subjects. I agree
>>>>
>> with
>>
>>>> Alice Miller and
>>>> nospank.org if you do not that is fine.
>>>>
>>>> At 01:41 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i saw different tatics that i have saw before.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1st: all civilize nations have aggreed with
>>>>>
>> your
>>
>>>>> position. implication nations and people who do
>>>>>
>> not
>>
>>>>> are "uncivilized." intimidation tactic since no
>>>>>
>> one
>>
>>>>> wants to be seen as "uncivilized."
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. we bring up spanking or corprell punishment
>>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>>> themn we start siting studies on sexual abuse
>>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>> "brutalizing children.
>>>>> no one would want to support sexually abusing
>>>>> children or bruatalizing children. impress
>>>>>
>> some,
>>
>>>>> intimidate the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> but here comes someone with brass enough to say
>>>>> studies on sexual abuse are not relavant to
>>>>>
>> average
>>
>>>>> parents spanking a average kid nor a average
>>>>>
>> school
>>
>>>>> teacher "applying the board of education to the
>>>>>
>>>> seat
>>>>
>>>>> of learning" nor studies of brualizing children
>>>>>
>>>> being
>>>>
>>>>> relavant to the average spanking or paddling.
>>>>>
>> it
>>
>>>>> sorta neutralize the tactics.
>>>>>
>>>>> how should it be read linda?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It does not sound like you read it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 07:06 PM 11/7/2007, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> spanking and sexual abuse are not =.
>>>>>>>
>> spanking
>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>>> brutalizing are not =. so your studies
>>>>>>>
>> quoting
>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>>> apples to oranges. sorry it don't sell
>>>>>>>
>> here.
>>
>>>>>>> --- Linda Walker <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> That was a good school experience and
>>>>>>>>
>> mine
>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>>>>>> similar altho it was
>>>>>>>> in a city and altho my family did not
>>>>>>>>
>> have
>>
>>>> much
>>>>
>>>>>>>> money most of the
>>>>>>>> kids were from well heeled families. I
>>>>>>>>
>> think
>>
>>>>>> because
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of my age (62)
>>>>>>>> there were no discipline problems
>>>>>>>>
>> either. We
>>
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> taught and we
>>>>>>>> learned. To my knowledge no one was ever
>>>>>>>>
>>>> spanked
>>>>
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> paddled.
>>>>>>>> Studies show paddling is bad for a
>>>>>>>>
>> child's
>>
>>>> self
>>>>
>>>>>>>> esteem and I agree
>>>>>>>> with www.nospank.org that passing laws
>>>>>>>>
>>>> against
>>>>
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> are best. Most
>>>>>>>> civilized countries have done so, the US
>>>>>>>>
>> has
>>
>>>>>> not. A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> highlight of my
>>>>>>>> life was giving an address in NY that
>>>>>>>>
>> Alice
>>
>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> was supposed to
>>>>>>>> give but she could not make it in from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Switzerland.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She is considered
>>>>>>>> the worlds foremost child psychologist,
>>>>>>>>
>> one
>>
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> first to deal with
>>>>>>>> children's issues.
>>>>>>>> I've worked cases in states where
>>>>>>>>
>> spanking
>>
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>>>>> allowed and they killed
>>>>>>>> a kid years ago, and covered it up,
>>>>>>>>
>> others
>>
>>>> were
>>>>
>>>>>>>> brutally beaten.
>>>>>>>> Studies also show that the brain
>>>>>>>>
>> develops
>>
>>>>>>>> differently when kids are
>>>>>>>> brutalized at home or in school or
>>>>>>>>
>> sexually
>>
>>>>>> abused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Physical and
>>>>>>>> sexual violence towards children often
>>>>>>>>
>> goes
>>
>>>> hand
>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hand. So if you
>>>>>>>> teach corporal punishment is wrong it
>>>>>>>>
>> sets a
>>
>>>>>>>> different standard, a
>>>>>>>> humane and compassionate one.
>>>>>>>> And check out Moses Lake WA if you think
>>>>>>>>
>>>> rural
>>>>
>>>>>> kids
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> live good
>>>>>>>> citizenship cause I've worked cases
>>>>>>>>
>> where
>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>> murder
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rate (kid on kid
>>>>>>>> and adult to kid) in rural areas is off
>>>>>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>> charts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many murders in
>>>>>>>> farm areas are covered up as farm
>>>>>>>>
>> accidents
>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>>>>> simply accepted by
>>>>>>>> authorities as accidents when they are
>>>>>>>>
>> not.
>>
>>
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