John, that's correct. Amen!
I don't mean what I'm saying to be unkind.
I was raised a Catholic, and I don't understand most of what Angel is
talking about.
I'm praying for you, Angel that you will see the light and the truth. <smile>
You are all loving! <smile>
Thanks much.
Many Blessings,
Pat Ferguson
"I can Do all Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me." Phillippians 4:13.
At 02:21 PM 7/26/2014, you wrote:
>Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>
>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the
>>word men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of
>>Adam. To seal the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2
>>verses 1 through 6 makes this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul,
>>in this passage commands us all to do just what we are doing. We
>>are interceding. This is what the saints who are always alive in
>>Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are we are doing. Too
>>fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter to dear saint
>>timothy. You will take note in the same passage, where saint Paul
>>maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he doesn't
>>exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God. Because
>>Christ is the one and sole mediator. If he had meant that for us
>>individuals, he surely would have made this clear in his letter to
>>Timothy. Whatever we might say concerning Saint Paul,
>>ambiguousness was not one vice possessed by him. Else, we on earth
>>could not, and would have no right to intercede for each other
>>while we reside on earth to the lord our God. We would have no
>>right to ask anyone for prayer assistance at all. If Christ were
>>truly the only mediator between us and God. The mediation of
>>Christ, and the interceding of the saints either visible or
>>invisible are two different concepts. About which there is no
>>confusion at all by saint Paul in this passage. What then is the
>>distinction made, and about which there is no confusion? The
>>distinction is made in first timothy 2 verse 6 when it makes clear
>>Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself
>>for us "men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for
>>us the terms of the new covenant. This is also amplified in
>>another letter from saint Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9
>>verse 15 in this verse saint Paul says Christ is the mediator of a
>>new covenant by means of death for the redemption of the
>>transgressions of the first covenant. Also, in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 24.
>>Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the
>>blood of Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as
>>it relates to the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference
>>between the mediation of Christ, and the interceding all saints are
>>commanded to do by saint Paul. Which also makes clearer the
>>mediation which belongs to Christ alone is between the whole human
>>race and God. The man who is also the complete God incarnate is
>>the only one who can mediate between God and the human race. Made
>>manifest by his death and resurrection. Which paid for our sins.
>>Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any
>>saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to
>>intercede at all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would
>>never be able at all to entreat God for anything at
>>all. Regardless on which plane we reside. Because the entirety of
>>the saints compose the body of Christ. There is no separation of
>>the members of the body of Christ. This is why the great cloud of
>>witness is so important. Because we all are equally members of the
>>body of Christ. The saints can not mediate, as referenced by these
>>passages, to reinforce the new covenant. Jesus did that when he
>>ransomed himself for us. But, we and they can and do intercede on
>>our behalf to the lord our God. ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>
>>
>>>Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and
>>>man, the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on
>>>before us, attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous
>>>position, breaking the first commandment. You are putting your
>>>own spin on topics, using logic that won't work.
>>>
>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do
>>>>doesn't it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as
>>>>are we here on earth without ceasing, and are given time to
>>>>constantly serve us as guardian Angels, ministering to our
>>>>needs. If we can be constantly praising God, both waking and
>>>>sleeping, while we have jobs and raise families here on
>>>>earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in heaven, as we
>>>>who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray for
>>>>those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising
>>>>God. If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for
>>>>those who request it of us, then the saints, who live in a
>>>>timeless eternity surely can devote time, which isn't even an
>>>>issue for them any longer to pray for us. Especially so, because
>>>>physical constraints such as the needs presented by the physical
>>>>body are not issues for them. Constant praise to God in Heaven is
>>>>understood, and is assumed by us as a primary postulate by all
>>>>the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in
>>>>Heaven where you remember the earth know more because you are to
>>>>busy praising The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we
>>>>>aren't praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I
>>>>>were to ask for your prayers for me. If I were wanting your
>>>>>assistance that I might endure a difficult time in my
>>>>>life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't in your cannon, I
>>>>>won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out those which you
>>>>>quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage in an
>>>>>argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory
>>>>>resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our
>>>>>saints. In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post.
>>>>>Rather the saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does
>>>>>Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like
>>>>>saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you
>>>>>to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter,
>>>>>should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead
>>>>>on behalf of the living. 20. Consult God's instruction and the
>>>>>testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this
>>>>>word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
|
