It amazes me when a woman wants a child, the person growing in her womb is
called a baby. Yet when she wants to rid herself of that child, it then is
called a fetus? Life begins when conception occurs. A more liberal
interpretation might be when the human heart begins beating. Traditional
Jewish writings indicate the soul enters the body at conception, and an
angel personally instructs the child within the womb concerning sacred
things. Proof of this seems to be when Mary first visited her cousin
Elizabeth. Telling her of the marvelous news a child would be born of her,
and would be surely great. As the angel spoke to her. John was filled with
the spirit of God, and hearing the marvelous tidings, leaped in the womb of
Elizabeth. I should think for such to occur John would have had to have a
soul a priori to this occurrence. He had grown and been nourished by her
for 6 months from his conception. Further, science bares out unborn
children feel pain and hear their mothers voice and her heart beat. Science
also understands when a person dies the last sense to leave him is his
hearing. Which, to me indicates, this may be one of the first senses to
become fully developed. The soul entered Adam when God breathed in to him.
But, Adam was not born of woman. Rather God personally created him, a fully
formed adult. The only way for a clay model of a man to become alive was
for God to breathe his own divine spark in to his nostrils. He hadn't the
chance as did each of us to be given life through the mothers placenta, and
to feel the warmth of life within her. So breath is no indication of the
souls entrance in to the fetus. Because no one is created as was Adam. I
think here the issue is looking at the potential of any living thing. If a
malignant or a benign tumor grows within a person, its potential is to be
nothing more than what are its beginnings. It will grow and contribute
nothing to the advancement of its host. Its host will die, or will be
considerabllly inconvenienced by its presence. Gaining nothing at all for
having fed and nourished it. In fact a tumor is a group of cells growing
out of control. An unborn child, on the other hand, has the potential to
become a grate saint of God, an intellectual giant, or if nothing more a
chance for others to serve God by serving the least able of us humans to
serve themselves. It is one of the most marvelous opportunities given to us
by God, to have a person to serve. Who can give to us nothing at all in
return. Because that is the easiest way to attain great heavenly rewards.
Few on this earth are given such an opportunity, and even fewer recognize it
for the marvelous chance for them to achieve Gods respect. Or even
understand the belief God holds in them and in their ability to rise to such
a noble occasion. Embracing such an opportunity with love, grace and with
patience. This is why The children of challenged parents hold such great
potential, and their birth to us is an indication of Gods great belief in
their potential greatness, as saints, and as people able to achieve great
earthly respect for their service and their devotion to their challenged
parents. What better way can a child show honor to his parents than through
selfless service to them. Such brings both heavenly and earthly rewards.
So, our own dear children are gifted by God with very special souls. Whose
potential for greatness is unlimited. Not all on earth have this
opportunity either. So, regarding the question of when the soul enters the
body: My answer is this: The asking of the question seems to me to be a
reason to justify ending a life before it enters this world. Rather than is
a theological question. Because, if that which grows within a woman,
brought about by the God given chance for us all to partner with him in the
divine creative act has no soul prior to breathing, then it means less to
end such a life. Because it is no different than the removal of an unwanted
tumor. In fact, I have heard these dear unborn children called by some
"parasites. My answer further, is who cares. If that child has a chance
to be born, he will surely possess a soul, and God is aware a soul is needed
by this person. So, why should we even want to deny all living creatures
the same opportunity we have to enjoy the divine spark God puts within us
all?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bev" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
> I'm just really curious, not trying to be a smart ass here, but have they
> figured out, yet, when does life begin? When does the soul enter the
> fetus? Is it immediately at conception, or, could it possibly be when that
> child actually takes it's first breath? I ask this, because It says in
> Genesis that Adam became a living being when God breathed into him the
> breath of life. I can't say I believe either way, but I have friends who
> actually believe that the person doesn't be come a total living person
> with a soul until they take their first breath of life.
>
> Bev
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>
>
>> What we are talking about here is the circumventing of the religious
>> freedom of others not to pay for what it is they don't believe. Upon
>> religious freedom was what this country was founded. It is the same as
>> our president saying ministers and priests, and caterers, and hotel
>> owners have to accommodate by law same sex couples against their
>> religious principles. Upon the point of punishment. While at the same
>> time saying Moslems shouldn't be let go from their jobs. If they, for
>> their religious reasons refuse to deliver alcohol in the trucks they
>> drive. Why should businesses which hire them allow for their religious
>> preference when they don't allow solid Christian people the same right?
>> Gods first commandment to mankind was to "be fruitful and to multiply.
>> From the time an egg is fertilized in the womb it is a person. With the
>> same rights as any of us. God told Jeremiah he knew him while he was
>> still in the womb. Do you think his knowledge extended to him alone? I
>> don't. When a man and woman engage in sexual congress with each other
>> there are three involved in that union. The man, the woman, and God. It
>> is he who decides whether fertilization ought to take place, and has a
>> soul prepared for all whom he wishes to live on this earth. Along with a
>> guardian angel to protect him from harm at all times. There are those
>> who have been fortunate enough to have seen their angels. I know such a
>> person. Just ask Phil concerning his dear grand son. His personal angel
>> must have been there watching over him from the time he was beaten till
>> the glorious day he made a full recovery. God has a plan for each of
>> us, and cares enough for each of us to see we will have all we need.
>> Jesus said as much when he pointed out the lily's of the field, and their
>> beauty, and said God knew the smallest thing concerning each of us. We
>> know this because he gave his only begotten son that we might not die the
>> death of sinners, and be separated from his divine presence for eternity.
>> If we acknowledge this. Who are we to assume we know better than does
>> he, and use some artificial means to attempt to thwart his divine plan
>> for our progeny. Hasn't he done so much for us that we need to make his
>> job of carrying out his sovereign will more difficult for him. Why would
>> we even think of trying to second guess a God who sacrificed so much for
>> us. Or why would we force people who do believe this to pay for others
>> to try to thwart Gods will.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doris and Chris" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 7:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>>
>>
>>> Amen. I am not sure I will ever become a catholic but I surely find my
>>> own faith a lot more reflected in catholicism than with fundamentalist
>>> evangelical teaching.
>>>
>>> should i even mention this: I do not view the birth control bill as
>>> abortion as this is imo dublicating a natural process of a human - even
>>> fertilized - egg not taking to nesting in the womb and growing to term.
>>>
>>> hugs,
>>>
>>> Doris
>>>
>>> At 10:20 AM 2014/03/04 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>No they aren't in conflict. I think our origins are irrelevant to me.
>>>>Understanding our origins will not, as far as I can tell, assist me in
>>>>my successful journey toward heaven. So, why should I care either way.
>>>>I understand we share common elements because we share life with lower
>>>>animals and with plants. It is our commonality which causes us to
>>>>interact so smoothly with domestic animals. who make our lives easier
>>>>by working for us. An example of which is the Guide dog or guide horse.
>>>>Or those dogs used to herd animals. Thus making our human work and
>>>>lleasure easier. Studding what we hold in common with lower animals and
>>>>plants also makes it an easier thing to more perfectly understand
>>>>ourselves.
>>>>Which is why medical science was able to make the progress it did before
>>>>it was legal to dissect the human cadaver. Thus the commonality we
>>>>share with lower creatures and with plants was designed to provide for
>>>>us a more perfect understanding of how it was God created us all. It
>>>>also gives to us a more perfect understanding of our intellectual
>>>>processes. Because each fully formed concept goes through a similar
>>>>creative process as God expressed when he created the universe. Which
>>>>is why we are created in Gods image. As we are the only creatures with
>>>>the ability to understand and to use intellect, and to create as does
>>>>He. This is why Satan can only get his will to be done on earth.
>>>>Because he can only do so through manipulation of us through the use of
>>>>the human weaknesses, and ignorance with which we are all plagued. As
>>>>he needs us to partner with him.
>>>>He can not create as can we.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Doris and Chris" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 9:00 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>actually, we share 98.7 % of the same dna according to francis collins.
>>>>>*g*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>for me, my faith and my interest in evolution are no conflict. are they
>>>>>for you?
>>>>>
>>>>>hugs,
>>>>>
>>>>>Doris
>>>>>
>>>>>for At 06:21 AM 2014/03/04 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>>>Why do the grate apes live on bananas and aren't diabetic or
>>>>>>depressed? The grate apes have 97 percent of human DNA. So, they can
>>>>>>properly be chosen as examples. Why, when we domesticate animals are
>>>>>>they infected by all sorts of human diseases unknown to them in the
>>>>>>wild? One should never depend on personal likes and dislikes to
>>>>>>determine what one eats. Rather one should only eat what is best for
>>>>>>the optimal functioning of our bodies and our brains. One should
>>>>>>never burden our internal organs with unnecessary work. As we do when
>>>>>>we eat more sugar than our cells can properly absorb. Because as all
>>>>>>things die, too much overwork can cause organs to prematurely die
>>>>>>before the rest of our bodies do. We wouldn't ask our friends or our
>>>>>>family to do more work than they can safely and healthily do.
>>>>>>Particularly if they are as good to us as are our internal organs.
>>>>>>Then why should we expect our liver or our kidneys or pancreas to do
>>>>>>more work than they need to do to keep our bodies functioning? Since I
>>>>>>heard of more and more people being somehow drug dependent, and having
>>>>>>to depend for their existence on physicians, and getting type II
>>>>>>diabetes I have asked myself these questions.
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Doris and Chris"
>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 11:30 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>strawberries, grapes and bananas, while healthy in their own right in
>>>>>>>moderation, are rich in fast carbs and thus not the kind of food a
>>>>>>>diabetic should have a lot of.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a lot of things simply take a while for the body to adjust to. it
>>>>>>>does with me. I always went potty more than once a day but doing it a
>>>>>>>lot more often now. *g* chris is watching my input and output and
>>>>>>>while I am quite productive currently, it is not the runs. If you
>>>>>>>want to live healthily, you will just have to teach your body to like
>>>>>>>what is good for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This does work as i did it once before long before I was diabetic to
>>>>>>>ward off a chronic candida (yeast) infection where I was allergic to
>>>>>>>several of the antifungal grugs used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>praying for you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Doris and chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At 09:35 PM 2014/03/03 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>I have to ask, what kinds of foods make a person feel more full? I
>>>>>>>>know I eat way too much carbs, but I don't seem to know what else to
>>>>>>>>eat. I like vegetables, but raw vegetables seem to give me more
>>>>>>>>tummy issues than they're worth. I'm having a horrible time knowing
>>>>>>>>what to eat. I don't like much in the way of fresh fruit. I do like
>>>>>>>>apples, grapes and strawberries, but there aren't many other fresh
>>>>>>>>fruits I like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Doris and Chris"
>>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 10:23 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi, Phil,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Oh, the many things I learned to enjoy and eat while in the
>>>>>>>>>hospital have me full and not craving any sweets and I have been
>>>>>>>>>losing weight. Some of my clothes now seem almost like a before and
>>>>>>>>>after commercial from some fad diet but they are not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>some of you have been personal friends and prayer partners for many
>>>>>>>>>years. if things do get personal, I likewise will use pm but with
>>>>>>>>>my diabetes, i am encouraged to learn different people;s
>>>>>>>>>experiences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>since i never liked most sweets I should be fine. oh, and in
>>>>>>>>>germany, traditionally with most people the main meal is eaten
>>>>>>>>>around midday.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>praying for just the right job or volunteer opportunity for ms
>>>>>>>>>sandy and a contued gute besserung according to gods will for the
>>>>>>>>>both of you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>hugs,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Doris and chris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At 08:58 PM 2014/03/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Doris,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>We can easily work something out. Does Germany have more than one
>>>>>>>>>>time zone
>>>>>>>>>>like the states having 4 time zones? According to my iPhone,
>>>>>>>>>>Berlin is 8
>>>>>>>>>>hours ahead of the Mountain Time Zone which I am in. I don't know
>>>>>>>>>>where you live from
>>>>>>>>>>Berlin's. I'm guessing therefore, we are 7 or 8 hours apart and I
>>>>>>>>>>am behind you in time, of course. I'd enjoy talking to Chris as
>>>>>>>>>>well and
>>>>>>>>>>praying together, for that matter, too. I'm posting openly on the
>>>>>>>>>>list so
>>>>>>>>>>others can participate but otherwise, when things become more
>>>>>>>>>>personal, I'll
>>>>>>>>>>write privately offlist. I haven't been on my diabetes oral
>>>>>>>>>>medication for
>>>>>>>>>>3 weeks due to my weight loss and my low carb style of eating. I
>>>>>>>>>>have done
>>>>>>>>>>no exercising other than walking which I just started a couple of
>>>>>>>>>>days ago.
>>>>>>>>>>So, I lost 50 pounds in 5 months without being hungry and without
>>>>>>>>>>exercising. Now I'm on the second half of my diet and off the
>>>>>>>>>>medication
>>>>>>>>>>for the high blood sugar so we can talk more about that later. I
>>>>>>>>>>have been
>>>>>>>>>>checking my sugar levels with my talking glucomitor a couple of
>>>>>>>>>>times each
>>>>>>>>>>day to make sure nothing gets out of control but I know now what I
>>>>>>>>>>can eat,
>>>>>>>>>>and not eat, to control the numbers. My sugar levels are normal
>>>>>>>>>>and have
>>>>>>>>>>been these last few weeks. I go to my doctor in a week for an A1C
>>>>>>>>>>blood
>>>>>>>>>>test but the levels have been normal for the past two years so he
>>>>>>>>>>moved me
>>>>>>>>>>from 3 months to 6 months apart for the A1C test to gives them the
>>>>>>>>>>accurate
>>>>>>>>>>reading over any period of time. My blood sugar levels were in
>>>>>>>>>>the high
>>>>>>>>>>rage during the 3 days I was in the hospital because they were
>>>>>>>>>>giving me
>>>>>>>>>>steroids to assist in the healing of my spine so they gave me
>>>>>>>>>>shots to help
>>>>>>>>>>keep it down during those 3 days but otherwise, I've had nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>I can eat
>>>>>>>>>>a lot of food because some foods have no carbohydrates at all and
>>>>>>>>>>some foods
>>>>>>>>>>even help cancel out other foods you are eating with high carbs
>>>>>>>>>>content. I'm sure others
>>>>>>>>>>on the list who are diabetics can testify to similar experiences.
>>>>>>>>>>About 5
>>>>>>>>>>years ago, when Vicki's husband John had open heart surgery, my
>>>>>>>>>>blood sugar
>>>>>>>>>>was in the 300 range. Now it runs about 107 to 110 unless I eat a
>>>>>>>>>>meal that
>>>>>>>>>>is elevated with high carbs and then it may jump 2 hours later to
>>>>>>>>>>155. It
>>>>>>>>>>quickly drops back down, however, to 102 to 110 after those two
>>>>>>>>>>hours of
>>>>>>>>>>digestion of what I ate. To my amazement, I don't crave food
>>>>>>>>>>except upon occasion and even then, only for brief periods of
>>>>>>>>>>time. Sometimes I forget to eat our evening meal all together. We
>>>>>>>>>>eat our main meal at noon because Sandy used to go to work in the
>>>>>>>>>>middle of the afternoon so we have gotten used to having a big
>>>>>>>>>>meal for our lunch at the noon hour. I've heard people say they
>>>>>>>>>>forget to eat but I never believed it was possible until it began
>>>>>>>>>>happening to me since June first of this year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Phil.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Doris and Chris"
>>>>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 7:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Prayer - Attention Doris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>that would be wonderful and any time we are not sleeping would
>>>>>>>>>>>work. we
>>>>>>>>>>>would like for Chris to be included in prayer sessions as it is
>>>>>>>>>>>him who is
>>>>>>>>>>>facing a lot of responsibility with my diabetes and often does
>>>>>>>>>>>not feel or
>>>>>>>>>>>is not up to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Love in Christ,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Doris
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>At 02:08 PM 2014/03/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>Sandy is getting better each day but it is a slow process. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>come out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>my office often during most of the day and evening because she
>>>>>>>>>>>>can get
>>>>>>>>>>>>around using her walker and she has learned to walk without the
>>>>>>>>>>>>walker for
>>>>>>>>>>>>short distances. Whenever she needs me, since my office is on
>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>opposite side of our home, she just calls me on our cell phones
>>>>>>>>>>>>and I come
>>>>>>>>>>>>running. I'm suggesting, therefore, we can work something out
>>>>>>>>>>>>on skype to
>>>>>>>>>>>>pray and talk sooner than I thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Phil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I Was Perfect Until I Met Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>><http://www.SafePlaceFellowship.com>www.SafePlaceFellowship.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3705/7142 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>>03/02/14
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3705/7152 - Release Date: 03/04/14
>>
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