I have an idea if I continue this discussion it will be fruitless.  I just 
hoped there might be a better understanding between the groups.  Though, I 
suspect, if the one Christian Church can't be brought together as yet.  I 
can't even expect what I say to make a difference.  If better and more 
perfectly trained  people in exegesis, and hermeneutics before me have tried 
and have failed.    I do want to apologize for the wrong I did you in 
posting the biblical reference in my last post.  It was done from a spirit 
of uncharity.
Which was uncalled for on my behalf.  I trust you will all forgive me.  I 
ought to know better than to exhibit such a proud and such an unloving 
attitude.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead


> You are right.  God allows much with which he doesn't approve.  Just look 
> at all sorts of ungodly practices practiced by many these days. 
> Homosexual marriage being one such practice.  On that we agree.  But, that 
> wasn't what the discussion was about.  I was attempting, again to explain 
> why the Saints of all ages share in the living body of Christ, and why we 
> believe they are constantly interceding for us on our behalf to the lord 
> our God.  So many lack sufficient understanding of why requests for 
> saintly intercession is practiced by so many, and why so many are 
> comforted by this knowledge. That was all.  Of course you are free to 
> believe what it is you choose.  As we all are.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
>> Because God allowed it, doesn't mean that He approved it.
>>
>> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>We aren't talking about necromancy here.  Even if what you say is true, 
>>>God allowed Saul to be visited by Samuel.  When he was called up from the 
>>>dead. Also, if it were true, there wouldn't be an exhortation and a 
>>>condemnation for those who actively practice necromancy.  There are those 
>>>who claim the spirit of Samuel was demonic in origin.  But, if one 
>>>believes totally in sola scriptura, as protestants do, the bible doesn't 
>>>make that clear.  Thus believing in that leans on protestant 
>>>interpretation and protestant tradition to sustain such belief.  In any 
>>>case, The passage to which you refer is that conversation between Abraham 
>>>and divies.  In which Divies was requesting father Abraham to do 
>>>something even the saints who have preceded us can not do.  Because the 
>>>saints' job is not to evangelize after they have left this world.  Nor is 
>>>it to provide room service for those residing in hell.  Also, the saints 
>>>regardless where is their residence have no obligation to any who are in 
>>>hell. Also, The story to which you refer was one told by Jesus before his 
>>>great sacrifice for us.  Which sacrifice transfigured us all forever. 
>>>Evangelizing is our job alone.  As was stated in the great commission to 
>>>the apostles that they go in to the whole world and preach the gospel to 
>>>every creature.  On the mount of Transfiguration Moses and Elijah was 
>>>seen on that mount talking together with Jesus.  Which disproves what you 
>>>say about saints not being mobile between the two worlds. In fact, Saint 
>>>Peter was so moved he suggested a monument should be erected to 
>>>memorialize the occurrence.  Further, at least one conversation did occur 
>>>between Divies and father Abraham.  As do those between the saints and 
>>>us, assisted by the holy spirit.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:17 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>
>>>
>>>Because there is a big void that seperates them from earth and hell. The 
>>>ones in hell cannot for the sane reason. Only angels and evil spirits can 
>>>come back and forth
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>On Jul 26, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't 
>>>>it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on 
>>>>earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as 
>>>>guardian Angels, ministering to our needs.  If we can be constantly 
>>>>praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise 
>>>>families here on earth.  Why can't the saints intercede for us in 
>>>>heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray 
>>>>for those on this list who ask for prayer?  While still praising God. 
>>>>If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who request 
>>>>it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can 
>>>>devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for 
>>>>us.  Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs 
>>>>presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise 
>>>>to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary 
>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven 
>>>>where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising 
>>>>The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't 
>>>>>praying to them.  Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for 
>>>>>your prayers for me.  If I were wanting your assistance that I might 
>>>>>endure a difficult time in my life.  Also, as the second McCabe's isn't 
>>>>>in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out 
>>>>>those which you quoted.  As they would be dismissed.  I will not engage 
>>>>>in an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory 
>>>>>resolution for either of us.  Prayers aren't offered up to our saints. 
>>>>>In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the 
>>>>>saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the 
>>>>>blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints 
>>>>>or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20.  19. When someone tells you to consult 
>>>>>mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people 
>>>>>inquire of their God?  Why consult the dead on behalf of the living. 
>>>>>20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone 
>>>>>does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=