Angel, your problem is not exegesis but eisogesis.
earlier, Angel, wrote:
>I have an idea if I continue this discussion it will be
>fruitless. I just hoped there might be a better understanding
>between the groups. Though, I suspect, if the one Christian Church
>can't be brought together as yet. I can't even expect what I say to
>make a difference. If better and more perfectly trained people in
>exegesis, and hermeneutics before me have tried and have
>failed. I do want to apologize for the wrong I did you in posting
>the biblical reference in my last post. It was done from a spirit
>of uncharity.
>Which was uncalled for on my behalf. I trust you will all forgive
>me. I ought to know better than to exhibit such a proud and such an
>unloving attitude.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
>>You are right. God allows much with which he doesn't
>>approve. Just look at all sorts of ungodly practices practiced by
>>many these days. Homosexual marriage being one such practice. On
>>that we agree. But, that wasn't what the discussion was about. I
>>was attempting, again to explain why the Saints of all ages share
>>in the living body of Christ, and why we believe they are
>>constantly interceding for us on our behalf to the lord our
>>God. So many lack sufficient understanding of why requests for
>>saintly intercession is practiced by so many, and why so many are
>>comforted by this knowledge. That was all. Of course you are free
>>to believe what it is you choose. As we all are.
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:16 PM
>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>
>>
>>>Because God allowed it, doesn't mean that He approved it.
>>>
>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>We aren't talking about necromancy here. Even if what you say is
>>>>true, God allowed Saul to be visited by Samuel. When he was
>>>>called up from the dead. Also, if it were true, there wouldn't be
>>>>an exhortation and a condemnation for those who actively practice
>>>>necromancy. There are those who claim the spirit of Samuel was
>>>>demonic in origin. But, if one believes totally in sola
>>>>scriptura, as protestants do, the bible doesn't make that
>>>>clear. Thus believing in that leans on protestant interpretation
>>>>and protestant tradition to sustain such belief. In any case,
>>>>The passage to which you refer is that conversation between
>>>>Abraham and divies. In which Divies was requesting father
>>>>Abraham to do something even the saints who have preceded us can
>>>>not do. Because the saints' job is not to evangelize after they
>>>>have left this world. Nor is it to provide room service for
>>>>those residing in hell. Also, the saints regardless where is
>>>>their residence have no obligation to any who are in hell. Also,
>>>>The story to which you refer was one told by Jesus before his
>>>>great sacrifice for us. Which sacrifice transfigured us all
>>>>forever. Evangelizing is our job alone. As was stated in the
>>>>great commission to the apostles that they go in to the whole
>>>>world and preach the gospel to every creature. On the mount of
>>>>Transfiguration Moses and Elijah was seen on that mount talking
>>>>together with Jesus. Which disproves what you say about saints
>>>>not being mobile between the two worlds. In fact, Saint Peter was
>>>>so moved he suggested a monument should be erected to memorialize
>>>>the occurrence. Further, at least one conversation did occur
>>>>between Divies and father Abraham. As do those between the
>>>>saints and us, assisted by the holy spirit.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:17 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Because there is a big void that seperates them from earth and
>>>>hell. The ones in hell cannot for the sane reason. Only angels
>>>>and evil spirits can come back and forth
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 26, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do
>>>>>doesn't it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as
>>>>>are we here on earth without ceasing, and are given time to
>>>>>constantly serve us as guardian Angels, ministering to our
>>>>>needs. If we can be constantly praising God, both waking and
>>>>>sleeping, while we have jobs and raise families here on
>>>>>earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in heaven, as we
>>>>>who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray for
>>>>>those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising
>>>>>God. If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for
>>>>>those who request it of us, then the saints, who live in a
>>>>>timeless eternity surely can devote time, which isn't even an
>>>>>issue for them any longer to pray for us. Especially so,
>>>>>because physical constraints such as the needs presented by the
>>>>>physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise to God in
>>>>>Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary
>>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in
>>>>>Heaven where you remember the earth know more because you are to
>>>>>busy praising The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we
>>>>>>aren't praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I
>>>>>>were to ask for your prayers for me. If I were wanting your
>>>>>>assistance that I might endure a difficult time in my
>>>>>>life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't in your cannon, I
>>>>>>won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out those which
>>>>>>you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage in
>>>>>>an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory
>>>>>>resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our
>>>>>>saints. In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post.
>>>>>>Rather the saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does
>>>>>>Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones.
>>>>>>Like saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone
>>>>>>tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and
>>>>>>mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult
>>>>>>the dead on behalf of the living. 20. Consult God's instruction
>>>>>>and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak
>>>>>>according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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