Wasn't Samuel's complaint to Saul, "why are you disturbing me?" To me this 
is an indication that the dead saints are not preoccupied with those of us 
who are still here on earth. Yes, God allowed one incident which provided 
bad news to King Saul and scared the wits out of the demonicly controled 
witch.   Once again I repeat, the witnesses of Hebrews 12:1 are the 
testimonies or lifestyle witness of Old Testament saints described in 
Hebrews chapter eleven and given for our benefit.
Listening for His shout!
Grant


-----Original Message----- 
From: Angel
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead

We aren't talking about necromancy here.  Even if what you say is true, God
allowed Saul to be visited by Samuel.  When he was called up from the dead.
Also, if it were true, there wouldn't be an exhortation and a condemnation
for those who actively practice necromancy.  There are those who claim the
spirit of Samuel was demonic in origin.  But, if one believes totally in
sola scriptura, as protestants do, the bible doesn't make that clear.  Thus
believing in that leans on protestant interpretation and protestant
tradition to sustain such belief.  In any case, The passage to which you
refer is that conversation between Abraham and divies.  In which Divies was
requesting father Abraham to do something even the saints who have preceded
us can not do.  Because the saints' job is not to evangelize after they have
left this world.  Nor is it to provide room service for those residing in
hell.  Also, the saints regardless where is their residence have no
obligation to any who are in hell. Also, The story to which you refer was
one told by Jesus before his great sacrifice for us.  Which sacrifice
transfigured us all forever.  Evangelizing is our job alone.  As was stated
in the great commission to the apostles that they go in to the whole world
and preach the gospel to every creature.  On the mount of Transfiguration
Moses and Elijah was seen on that mount talking together with Jesus.  Which
disproves what you say about saints not being mobile between the two worlds.
In fact, Saint Peter was so moved he suggested a monument should be erected
to memorialize the occurrence.  Further, at least one conversation did occur
between Divies and father Abraham.  As do those between the saints and us,
assisted by the holy spirit.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead


Because there is a big void that seperates them from earth and hell. The
ones in hell cannot for the sane reason. Only angels and evil spirits can
come back and forth

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't it? 
> If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on earth 
> without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as guardian 
> Angels, ministering to our needs.  If we can be constantly praising God, 
> both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise families here on 
> earth.  Why can't the saints intercede for us in heaven, as we who live 
> here in this plane of existence find time to pray for those on this list 
> who ask for prayer?  While still praising God.  If we can find time in 
> this temporal world to pray for those who request it of us, then the 
> saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can devote time, which 
> isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for us.  Especially so, 
> because physical constraints such as the needs presented by the physical 
> body are not issues for them. Constant praise to God in Heaven is 
> understood, and is assumed by us as a primary postulate by all the 
> heavenly host, both angels and saints.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
> They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven 
> where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising 
> The Lord read Luke 16.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't praying 
>> to them.  Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for your 
>> prayers for me.  If I were wanting your assistance that I might endure a 
>> difficult time in my life.  Also, as the second McCabe's isn't in your 
>> cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out those which 
>> you quoted.  As they would be dismissed.  I will not engage in an 
>> argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory resolution 
>> for either of us.  Prayers aren't offered up to our saints.  In the same 
>> sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the saints continue to 
>> exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>> Subject: Praying to the dead
>>
>>
>> A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints 
>> or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20.  19. When someone tells you to consult 
>> mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people 
>> inquire of their God?  Why consult the dead on behalf of the living.  20. 
>> Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does 
>> not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone=