Angel, traditions are find as long as they don't conflict the Word of
God. Most traditions that protestants hold that I know of are not
important and are things the Word of
god does not specify.
earlier, Angel, wrote:
>All protestants hold to some tradition. Which traditions hold the
>dominations together.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
>>Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>>
>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the
>>>word men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of
>>>Adam. To seal the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2
>>>verses 1 through 6 makes this clear if read in context.)Saint
>>>Paul, in this passage commands us all to do just what we are
>>>doing. We are interceding. This is what the saints who are
>>>always alive in Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are we are
>>>doing. Too fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter
>>>to dear saint timothy. You will take note in the same passage,
>>>where saint Paul maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and
>>>God, he doesn't exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to
>>>God. Because Christ is the one and sole mediator. If he had
>>>meant that for us individuals, he surely would have made this
>>>clear in his letter to Timothy. Whatever we might say concerning
>>>Saint Paul, ambiguousness was not one vice possessed by
>>>him. Else, we on earth could not, and would have no right to
>>>intercede for each other while we reside on earth to the lord our
>>>God. We would have no right to ask anyone for prayer assistance
>>>at all. If Christ were truly the only mediator between us and
>>>God. The mediation of Christ, and the interceding of the saints
>>>either visible or invisible are two different concepts. About
>>>which there is no confusion at all by saint Paul in this
>>>passage. What then is the distinction made, and about which there
>>>is no confusion? The distinction is made in first timothy 2 verse
>>>6 when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>>he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself
>>>for us "men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for
>>>us the terms of the new covenant. This is also amplified in
>>>another letter from saint Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9
>>>verse 15 in this verse saint Paul says Christ is the mediator of a
>>>new covenant by means of death for the redemption of the
>>>transgressions of the first covenant. Also, in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 24.
>>>Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the
>>>blood of Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as
>>>it relates to the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference
>>>between the mediation of Christ, and the interceding all saints
>>>are commanded to do by saint Paul. Which also makes clearer the
>>>mediation which belongs to Christ alone is between the whole human
>>>race and God. The man who is also the complete God incarnate is
>>>the only one who can mediate between God and the human race. Made
>>>manifest by his death and resurrection. Which paid for our sins.
>>>Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any
>>>saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to
>>>intercede at all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would
>>>never be able at all to entreat God for anything at
>>>all. Regardless on which plane we reside. Because the entirety of
>>>the saints compose the body of Christ. There is no separation of
>>>the members of the body of Christ. This is why the great cloud of
>>>witness is so important. Because we all are equally members of
>>>the body of Christ. The saints can not mediate, as referenced by
>>>these passages, to reinforce the new covenant. Jesus did that
>>>when he ransomed himself for us. But, we and they can and do
>>>intercede on our behalf to the lord our God. ----- Original
>>>Message ----- From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>
>>>
>>>>Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and
>>>>man, the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on
>>>>before us, attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous
>>>>position, breaking the first commandment. You are putting your
>>>>own spin on topics, using logic that won't work.
>>>>
>>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do
>>>>>doesn't it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as
>>>>>are we here on earth without ceasing, and are given time to
>>>>>constantly serve us as guardian Angels, ministering to our
>>>>>needs. If we can be constantly praising God, both waking and
>>>>>sleeping, while we have jobs and raise families here on
>>>>>earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in heaven, as we
>>>>>who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray for
>>>>>those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising
>>>>>God. If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for
>>>>>those who request it of us, then the saints, who live in a
>>>>>timeless eternity surely can devote time, which isn't even an
>>>>>issue for them any longer to pray for us. Especially so,
>>>>>because physical constraints such as the needs presented by the
>>>>>physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise to God in
>>>>>Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary
>>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in
>>>>>Heaven where you remember the earth know more because you are to
>>>>>busy praising The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we
>>>>>>aren't praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I
>>>>>>were to ask for your prayers for me. If I were wanting your
>>>>>>assistance that I might endure a difficult time in my
>>>>>>life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't in your cannon, I
>>>>>>won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out those which
>>>>>>you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage in
>>>>>>an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory
>>>>>>resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our
>>>>>>saints. In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post.
>>>>>>Rather the saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does
>>>>>>Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones.
>>>>>>Like saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone
>>>>>>tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and
>>>>>>mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult
>>>>>>the dead on behalf of the living. 20. Consult God's instruction
>>>>>>and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak
>>>>>>according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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