There are the touch screens and then there are also the screens that
one must sign with a stylus and hit the "accept" and "next" buttons.
Walmart had an accessibility problem with these terminals but I see
Del Hayes America (my local outlet is a Hannaford) is still using
inaccessible ones.  Somebody with the mental toughness to sue and win
ought to clean the payment mess up quickly before it spreads; many
places are opting to go "cashless" and that will leave us out if we
aren't careful. Steve

On 3/3/18, Colin Howard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 	Greetings,
>
> Here are Clive's responses to posts from this group forwarded by me to him.
>
> I paste them in exactly as received, suggest our friends across the pond
> may
> take particular interest in the first and could they please come back both
> to the group and to Clive, whose addressd is in the 'to' line of this post,
> with any responses?
>
> Thanks.
>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: RE: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
> From: "Clive Lever" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 20:05:32 -0000
>
> Hello Colin,
>
> Please share this with sSteve and the list.
>
> The subject has recently been raised by a list comprising people who went
> to
> certain schools in the UK. I've since looked on the internet, and find that
> someone raised the issue on a blog in Canada in 2010, and that an American
> company operating restaurants in the USA were sued under the Americans with
> Disabilities Act in 2017. I do not know the outcome of the case or even
> whether it has yet come to a verdict. In Britain, the legislation
> protecting
> different groups, including disabled people from discrimination is the
> Equality Act 2010. Doing various Google searches, I have yet to find
> evidence of anyone in Britain writing about the issue of blind people being
> excluded from the shopping experience by inaccessible technology at the
> point of sale, but clearly this is old news in North America.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Clive
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 5:43 PM
> To: Steve Hoad; [log in to unmask]
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
>
> Steve,
>
> United Kingdom.
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
> From: Steve Hoad <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:22:41 -0500
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>
> This is an excellent inquiry, however, I am interested in knowing the
> country of its origin.  I believe, here in the US, businesses using Square
> may be falling into the category described and there may be others since
> Mobile Point of Sale technology is being deployed by many companies; you'll
> find various providers in evidence at venues such as trade shows, farmers
> markets, etc.
>
> One reason I'm inquiring about the country of origin is that, obviously,
> different countries have different accessibility laws, rules and
> regulations.
> Thanks,
> Steve Hoad
>
> On 3/2/18, Colin Howard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> It has come to the attention of members of another list, some
>> restaurants and shops are no longer offering chip and PIN machines
>> when the time comes to pay the bill. Instead, people are being
>> presented with an IPad belonging to the service provider organisation
>> and are expected to type their PIN in on a silent, flat touchscreen.
>> In one case reported, the customer felt they had no alternative but to
>> divulge their PIN number to a member of staff. I've seen this in my
>> mobile phone service provider outlet in town. Has anyone here ever
>> been embarrassed or frustrated when given an inaccessible piece of
>> technology through which to make their payments? The people on the
>> other list (New College Worcester Former Students'
>> Association) would like to get an idea of the scale of this problem
>> and suggestions as to how it could be resolved, they can then bring
>> the issue into the light and campaign for change. Yes, I know IPads
>> are accessible, but you wouldn't want to turn voiceover on, on someone
>> else's IPad in an open plan restaurant and have it announce your
>> personal details to the world at large as you type. At my Phone
>> Supplier shop, they suggested turning speech on and playing my input
>> back through the shop's Public Address system!
>>
>> Clive would like to receive stories of instances where this has been
>> encountered, he assures me the information you provide will be passed
>> on to the collator with all personal details removed.
>>
>> Please do not write back to the group, but privately, to Clive Lever at:
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> In the past, Clive has worked in areas of considerable need for
>> discression, such as in Equal Opportunities, hence your personal
>> information is totally safe.
>>
>> Please also note, if you decide to pass stories on to the group as
>> well as or instead of writing to Clive, I will, removing any personal
>> details first, pass them on privately to Clive.
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>> Clive
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>> Archived on the World Wide Web at
>>     http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html
>>     Signoff: [log in to unmask]
>>     Subscribe: [log in to unmask]
>>
>
>
> --
>  Steve Hoad
>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: RE: (f) Re: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
> From: "Clive Lever" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 20:32:13 -0000
>
> Hi Colin,
>
> It has been pointed out on one of our lists that the Tablets through which
> people make the payments belong to the seller organisation. So what if you
> are an Apple user, and they present you with an Android Tablet, and you've
> never encountered one before...or vice versa?
>
> Best,
> Clive
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 8:09 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: (f) Re: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
>
> On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:15:36 -0800, amongst other things, Albert Ruel
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> If I start to encounter this in my world I will be able to plug in my
> earbuds and turn on VoiceOver in order to complete the transaction.  I
> carry
> them with me at all times, as our talking bank machines require me to bring
> my own devices already.  Bring it on, it'll be the first accessible point
> of
> sale purchase device in Canada if this actually happens here.
>
> Thx, Albert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Visually Impaired Computer Users' Group List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Hoad
> Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 5:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VICUG-L] Paying for goods via Touchscreens in shops
>
> This is an excellent inquiry, however, I am interested in knowing the
> country of its origin.  I believe, here in the US, businesses using Square
> may be falling into the category described and there may be others since
> Mobile Point of Sale technology is being deployed by many companies; you'll
> find various providers in evidence at venues such as trade shows, farmers
> markets, etc.
>
> One reason I'm inquiring about the country of origin is that, obviously,
> different countries have different accessibility laws, rules and
> regulations.
> Thanks,
> Steve Hoad
>
> On 3/2/18, Colin Howard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> It has come to the attention of members of another list, some
>> restaurants and shops are no longer offering chip and PIN machines
>> when the time comes to pay the bill. Instead, people are being
>> presented with an IPad belonging to the service provider organisation
>> and are expected to type their PIN in on a silent, flat touchscreen.
>> In one case reported, the customer felt they had no alternative but to
>> divulge their PIN number to a member of staff. I've seen this in my
>> mobile phone service provider outlet in town. Has anyone here ever
>> been embarrassed or frustrated when given an inaccessible piece of
>> technology through which to make their payments? The people on the
>> other list (New College Worcester Former Students'
>> Association) would like to get an idea of the scale of this problem
>> and suggestions as to how it could be resolved, they can then bring
>> the issue into the light and campaign for change. Yes, I know IPads
>> are accessible, but you wouldn't want to turn voiceover on, on someone
>> else's IPad in an open plan restaurant and have it announce your
>> personal details to the world at large as you type. At my Phone
>> Supplier shop, they suggested turning speech on and playing my input
>> back through the shop's Public Address system!
>>
>> Clive would like to receive stories of instances where this has been
>> encountered, he assures me the information you provide will be passed
>> on to the collator with all personal details removed.
>>
>> Please do not write back to the group, but privately, to Clive Lever at:
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> In the past, Clive has worked in areas of considerable need for
>> discression, such as in Equal Opportunities, hence your personal
>> information is totally safe.
>>
>> Please also note, if you decide to pass stories on to the group as
>> well as or instead of writing to Clive, I will, removing any personal
>> details first, pass them on privately to Clive.
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>> Clive
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
>> Archived on the World Wide Web at
>>     http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html
>>     Signoff: [log in to unmask]
>>     Subscribe: [log in to unmask]
>>
>
>
> --
>  Steve Hoad
>
>
>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> Archived on the World Wide Web at
>     http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html
>     Signoff: [log in to unmask]
>     Subscribe: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> Archived on the World Wide Web at
>     http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html
>     Signoff: [log in to unmask]
>     Subscribe: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> Archived on the World Wide Web at
>     http://listserv.icors.org/archives/vicug-l.html
>     Signoff: [log in to unmask]
>     Subscribe: [log in to unmask]
>


-- 
 Steve Hoad


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