Richard I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on some points, but one thing we can agree on is the fact that this thread has gone so far off topic. I'm actually pretty disappointed in a number of comments and other nonsense that has come out of the threads on this list as a result of what I thought was a reasonable discussion. I do apologize for even initiating the discussion and I certainly will reframe from ever bringing up such on this list because it is very apparent that having the conversation is almost impossible.