This is an incorrect interpretation of the word.  But, as Protestants follow 
a different bible altogether than do we Catholics.  I suspect we will just 
have to agree to disagree concerning this whole matter.  Before Phil throws 
me off the list altogether.  You and I won't ever agree on many matters of
Faith.  Which is why our Faiths are different, and why there are 
missionaries of so many different Faiths.  I am just glad the angels and 
saints are watching over us all and are constantly concerned with our 
well-being.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grant E. Metcalf" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:12 AM
Subject: the confusion of words


>    In Hebrews chapter 12 we find the term "so great a cloud of witnesses". 
> A proper meaning of the use of the word witness in this context is not one 
> who sees us but rather those whose lives are a witness or testimony to us. 
> The context of Hebrews 11 is a compilation of what faith accomplished in 
> the lives of all of those Old Testament believers which is intended to be 
> an encouragement for us to also live our lives by faith in what God has 
> promised and given to us in His word, the scripture, for our daily 
> practice. If our life is a witness or testimony to what God has done for 
> us then we can speak the truth of the Gospel to the unsaved. If our life 
> witness/testimony is false, why should anyone believe what we say.
> To reiterate, witness in the twelf chapter of Hebrews is a testimony to 
> us. If the Scripture means an eye-witness it will usually use that term 
> also.
> Listening for His shout!
> Grant
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Angel
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:51 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Angel, Please first read Heaven is for real: a little boy's 
> astounding story of his trip to heaven and back.
>
> I am not angry,,  I apologize if it seems that I am,.  I just can't
> understand for the life of me why protestants find it so hard to believe 
> in
> some Catholic teachings, such as those claiming the Saints are interceding
> for us constantly in heaven, and that they constantly are with us on earth
> watching over us with our personal angels.  They being the cloud of
> witnesses of which Saint Paul spoke, and they so easily accept something
> they read from a book shelf.  Almost as if it were gospel itself?  It 
> seems
> to me, protestants will bee almost willing to believe anything from almost
> anyone who claims it to be true.  Some are almost as bad as those who
> believe the shroud of Turin is real.  When Saint Paul didn't even recount
> what he saw in heaven, and don't you think he would have at least raved
> about how he saw Saint Steven there.  If he saw him.  Because, we know he
> suffered from the guilt over the part he played in his martyrdom, if he 
> saw
> him in heaven.  Why should I believe any modern recounts of heavenly
> experiences.  When, in order for A Saint to be canonized, two miracles 
> must
> be verified as having been done by that Saint.  It is those recounting 
> from
> such Saints as Paul and John in whom I put my trust concerning heavenly
> accounts.  I ask, what is the litmus test to which you all have put this
> recounting from this young man whom no one on the list knows personally?
> Now I am not saying the experiences themselves aren't real experiences.  I
> am just saying why I don't believe they should be taken at face value. 
> Only
> God knows whether those experiences weren't hallucinations.  My late 
> husband
> suffered from a load of those.  Each of which seemed perfectly real to 
> him.
> I know what they were too, because he spoke each he saw.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donna Bell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Angel, Please first read Heaven is for real: a little boy's
> astounding story of his trip to heaven and back.
>
>
>> Hi All,
>> I haven't read the book yet, but I intend too.  My first  reaction to
>> what I'm reading is that this family needs our prayers, and
>> compassion.
>> Any book that talks  about miracles should be weighed against scripture,
>> but it seems like what happened to this little one is meant  to 
>> encourage us.
>> I haven't  walked on water, or raised the dead,  but God has saved my
>> life more than once, and the testimonies from these events have lead
>> people to salvation,  which is what really matters.
>> We'll know the book by it's fruit.  Angel, I'm  sorry you seem so angry.
>> Blessings,
>> Donna
>> On 7/23/14, Phil Scovell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Then tell us everything that is theologically wrong with this miraculous
>>> experience.  I get the feeling you don't want to read this little book 
>>> and
>>> I'm wondering why.  Why do you want to argue what you believe when you
>>> haven't read this book of a little boy's testimony confirmed by 
>>> Scripture
>>> from beginning to end.  Are you worried it might challenge some of your 
>>> most
>>> closely held beliefs?
>>>
>>> Phil.
>>>