I feel we will all come to the sure and certain understanding of the truth.
as stated in First timothy 3 verse 15.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Ferguson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
> John, that's correct. Amen!
>
> I don't mean what I'm saying to be unkind.
>
> I was raised a Catholic, and I don't understand most of what Angel is
> talking about.
>
> I'm praying for you, Angel that you will see the light and the truth.
> <smile>
>
> You are all loving! <smile>
>
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Many Blessings,
>
> Pat Ferguson
> "I can Do all Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me." Phillippians
> 4:13.
>
> At 02:21 PM 7/26/2014, you wrote:
>>Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>>
>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the word
>>>men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of Adam. To seal
>>>the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2 verses 1 through 6
>>>makes this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul, in this passage commands
>>>us all to do just what we are doing. We are interceding. This is what
>>>the saints who are always alive in Christ, and are conscious in Christ,
>>>as are we are doing. Too fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his
>>>letter to dear saint timothy. You will take note in the same passage,
>>>where saint Paul maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he
>>>doesn't exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God. Because
>>>Christ is the one and sole mediator. If he had meant that for us
>>>individuals, he surely would have made this clear in his letter to
>>>Timothy. Whatever we might say concerning Saint Paul, ambiguousness was
>>>not one vice possessed by him. Else, we on earth could not, and would
>>>have no right to intercede for each other while we reside on earth to the
>>>lord our God. We would have no right to ask anyone for prayer assistance
>>>at all. If Christ were truly the only mediator between us and God. The
>>>mediation of Christ, and the interceding of the saints either visible or
>>>invisible are two different concepts. About which there is no confusion
>>>at all by saint Paul in this passage. What then is the distinction made,
>>>and about which there is no confusion? The distinction is made in first
>>>timothy 2 verse 6 when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>>he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself for us
>>>"men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for us the terms
>>>of the new covenant. This is also amplified in another letter from saint
>>>Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9 verse 15 in this verse saint
>>>Paul says Christ is the mediator of a new covenant by means of death for
>>>the redemption of the transgressions of the first covenant. Also, in
>>>Hebrews chapter 12 verse 24.
>>>Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the blood of
>>>Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as it relates to
>>>the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference between the
>>>mediation of Christ, and the interceding all saints are commanded to do
>>>by saint Paul. Which also makes clearer the mediation which belongs to
>>>Christ alone is between the whole human race and God. The man who is
>>>also the complete God incarnate is the only one who can mediate between
>>>God and the human race. Made manifest by his death and resurrection.
>>>Which paid for our sins. Without which, there would be no need for any
>>>intercession by any saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the
>>>privilege to intercede at all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we
>>>would never be able at all to entreat God for anything at all.
>>>Regardless on which plane we reside. Because the entirety of the saints
>>>compose the body of Christ. There is no separation of the members of the
>>>body of Christ. This is why the great cloud of witness is so important.
>>>Because we all are equally members of the body of Christ. The saints can
>>>not mediate, as referenced by these passages, to reinforce the new
>>>covenant. Jesus did that when he ransomed himself for us. But, we and
>>>they can and do intercede on our behalf to the lord our God. -----
>>>Original Message -----
>>>From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>
>>>
>>>>Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and man,
>>>>the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on before us,
>>>>attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous position, breaking
>>>>the first commandment. You are putting your own spin on topics, using
>>>>logic that won't work.
>>>>
>>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't
>>>>>it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on
>>>>>earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as
>>>>>guardian Angels, ministering to our needs. If we can be constantly
>>>>>praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise
>>>>>families here on earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in
>>>>>heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to
>>>>>pray for those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising
>>>>>God. If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who
>>>>>request it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity
>>>>>surely can devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer
>>>>>to pray for us. Especially so, because physical constraints such as
>>>>>the needs presented by the physical body are not issues for them.
>>>>>Constant praise to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as
>>>>>a primary postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven
>>>>>where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising
>>>>>The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't
>>>>>>praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for
>>>>>>your prayers for me. If I were wanting your assistance that I might
>>>>>>endure a difficult time in my life. Also, as the second McCabe's
>>>>>>isn't in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel
>>>>>>out those which you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not
>>>>>>engage in an argument regarding something without a possible
>>>>>>satisfactory resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up
>>>>>>to our saints. In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post.
>>>>>>Rather the saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus,
>>>>>>and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like
>>>>>>saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you to
>>>>>>consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a
>>>>>>people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the
>>>>>>living. 20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning.
>>>>>>If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of
>>>>>>dawn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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