All protestants hold to some tradition.  Which traditions hold the 
dominations together.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead


> Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>
> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind.  Which is meant by the word 
>>men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of Adam.  To seal 
>>the terms of the new Covenant.   (first timothy 2 verses 1 through 6 makes 
>>this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul, in this passage commands us all 
>>to do just what we are doing.  We are interceding.  This is what the 
>>saints who are always alive in Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are 
>>we are doing. Too fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter to 
>>dear saint timothy.  You will take note in the same passage, where saint 
>>Paul maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he doesn't 
>>exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God.  Because Christ is 
>>the one and sole mediator.  If he had meant that for us individuals, he 
>>surely would have made this clear in his letter to Timothy.  Whatever we 
>>might say concerning Saint Paul, ambiguousness was not one vice possessed 
>>by him.  Else, we on earth could not, and would have no right to intercede 
>>for each other while we reside on earth to the lord our God.  We would 
>>have no right to ask anyone for prayer assistance at all.  If Christ were 
>>truly the only mediator between us and God.  The mediation of Christ, and 
>>the interceding of the saints either visible or invisible are two 
>>different concepts.  About which there is no confusion at all by saint 
>>Paul in this passage.  What then is the distinction made, and about which 
>>there is no confusion?  The distinction is made in first timothy 2 verse 6 
>>when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>he ransomed himself for us.  Being the "man" who ransomed himself for us 
>>"men".  Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for us the terms 
>>of the new covenant.  This is also amplified in another letter from saint 
>>Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9 verse 15 in this verse saint Paul 
>>says Christ is the mediator of a new covenant by means of death for the 
>>redemption of the transgressions of the first covenant.  Also, in Hebrews 
>>chapter 12 verse 24.
>>Where it talks about the mediation of the   new covenant in the blood of 
>>Christ.  An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as it relates to 
>>the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference between the mediation 
>>of Christ, and the interceding all saints are commanded to do by saint 
>>Paul. Which also makes clearer the mediation which belongs to Christ alone 
>>is between the whole human race and God.  The man who is also the complete 
>>God incarnate is the only one who can mediate between God and the human 
>>race. Made manifest by his death and resurrection.  Which paid for our 
>>sins. Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any 
>>saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to intercede at 
>>all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would never be able at all 
>>to entreat God for anything at all.  Regardless on which plane we reside. 
>>Because the entirety of the saints compose the body of Christ.  There is 
>>no separation of the members of the body of Christ.  This is why the great 
>>cloud of witness is so important.  Because we all are equally members of 
>>the body of Christ.  The saints can not mediate, as referenced by these 
>>passages, to reinforce the new covenant.  Jesus did that when he ransomed 
>>himself for us.  But, we and they can and do intercede on our behalf to 
>>the lord our God.      ----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>
>>
>>>Angel, why not?  Because there is only 1 mediator between God and man, 
>>>the man,Christ Jesus.  You are giving those who have gone on before us, 
>>>attributes that only God has.  You are in a dangerous position, breaking 
>>>the first commandment.  You are putting your own spin on topics, using 
>>>logic that won't work.
>>>
>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't 
>>>>it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on 
>>>>earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as 
>>>>guardian Angels, ministering to our needs.  If we can be constantly 
>>>>praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise 
>>>>families here on earth.  Why can't the saints intercede for us in 
>>>>heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray 
>>>>for those on this list who ask for prayer?  While still praising God. 
>>>>If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who request 
>>>>it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can 
>>>>devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for 
>>>>us.  Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs 
>>>>presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise 
>>>>to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary 
>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven 
>>>>where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising 
>>>>The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't 
>>>>>praying to them.  Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for 
>>>>>your prayers for me.  If I were wanting your assistance that I might 
>>>>>endure a difficult time in my life.  Also, as the second McCabe's isn't 
>>>>>in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out 
>>>>>those which you quoted.  As they would be dismissed.  I will not engage 
>>>>>in an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory 
>>>>>resolution for either of us.  Prayers aren't offered up to our saints. 
>>>>>In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the 
>>>>>saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the 
>>>>>blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints 
>>>>>or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20.  19. When someone tells you to consult 
>>>>>mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people 
>>>>>inquire of their God?  Why consult the dead on behalf of the living. 
>>>>>20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone 
>>>>>does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=