Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
earlier, Angel, wrote:
>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the
>word men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of
>Adam. To seal the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2
>verses 1 through 6 makes this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul,
>in this passage commands us all to do just what we are doing. We
>are interceding. This is what the saints who are always alive in
>Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are we are doing. Too
>fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter to dear saint
>timothy. You will take note in the same passage, where saint Paul
>maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he doesn't
>exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God. Because
>Christ is the one and sole mediator. If he had meant that for us
>individuals, he surely would have made this clear in his letter to
>Timothy. Whatever we might say concerning Saint Paul, ambiguousness
>was not one vice possessed by him. Else, we on earth could not, and
>would have no right to intercede for each other while we reside on
>earth to the lord our God. We would have no right to ask anyone for
>prayer assistance at all. If Christ were truly the only mediator
>between us and God. The mediation of Christ, and the interceding of
>the saints either visible or invisible are two different
>concepts. About which there is no confusion at all by saint Paul in
>this passage. What then is the distinction made, and about which
>there is no confusion? The distinction is made in first timothy 2
>verse 6 when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself
>for us "men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for
>us the terms of the new covenant. This is also amplified in another
>letter from saint Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9 verse 15
>in this verse saint Paul says Christ is the mediator of a new
>covenant by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions
>of the first covenant. Also, in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 24.
>Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the
>blood of Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as
>it relates to the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference
>between the mediation of Christ, and the interceding all saints are
>commanded to do by saint Paul. Which also makes clearer the
>mediation which belongs to Christ alone is between the whole human
>race and God. The man who is also the complete God incarnate is the
>only one who can mediate between God and the human race. Made
>manifest by his death and resurrection. Which paid for our sins.
>Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any
>saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to intercede
>at all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would never be able
>at all to entreat God for anything at all. Regardless on which
>plane we reside. Because the entirety of the saints compose the body
>of Christ. There is no separation of the members of the body of
>Christ. This is why the great cloud of witness is so
>important. Because we all are equally members of the body of
>Christ. The saints can not mediate, as referenced by these
>passages, to reinforce the new covenant. Jesus did that when he
>ransomed himself for us. But, we and they can and do intercede on
>our behalf to the lord our God. ----- Original Message -----
>From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
>>Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and
>>man, the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on
>>before us, attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous
>>position, breaking the first commandment. You are putting your own
>>spin on topics, using logic that won't work.
>>
>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do
>>>doesn't it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are
>>>we here on earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly
>>>serve us as guardian Angels, ministering to our needs. If we can
>>>be constantly praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we
>>>have jobs and raise families here on earth. Why can't the saints
>>>intercede for us in heaven, as we who live here in this plane of
>>>existence find time to pray for those on this list who ask for
>>>prayer? While still praising God. If we can find time in this
>>>temporal world to pray for those who request it of us, then the
>>>saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can devote time,
>>>which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for
>>>us. Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs
>>>presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant
>>>praise to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a
>>>primary postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>
>>>
>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in
>>>Heaven where you remember the earth know more because you are to
>>>busy praising The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't
>>>>praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I were to
>>>>ask for your prayers for me. If I were wanting your assistance
>>>>that I might endure a difficult time in my life. Also, as the
>>>>second McCabe's isn't in your cannon, I won't even expect those
>>>>scriptures to cancel out those which you quoted. As they would
>>>>be dismissed. I will not engage in an argument regarding
>>>>something without a possible satisfactory resolution for either
>>>>of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our saints. In the same
>>>>sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the saints
>>>>continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like
>>>>saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you
>>>>to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should
>>>>not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on
>>>>behalf of the living. 20. Consult God's instruction and the
>>>>testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this
>>>>word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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