********************************************************
VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
http://www.africanassociation.org
FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
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You emphasize your beliefs with what you post, often submitting
articles from the right wing WSJ, and you emphatically state your
religious beliefs. And you used the article as propaganda in raining
fire and brimstone at the prospect of nationalized health care.
John
On Jul 13, 2009, at 11:20 AM, VERA R CROWELL wrote:
> ********************************************************
>
> VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
>
> http://www.africanassociation.org
>
> FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
>
> MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
>
> ********************************************************
>
> John said, "But its interesting, if it there was any truth to those
> privileged enough to be insured having to give up something, you
> being a Christian and not willing to give up anything for the
> greater good."
>
> I am continually amazed at the personal attacks I receive on this
> board.
>
> First, you have no idea what I give up because it is none of your
> business. I am also amazed at how many people seem to be so certain
> that they know and should dictate what Christians should or should
> not be doing, thinking, and believing. Second, what's with the "your
> right-wing bible?" You are making a lot of assumptions and I resent
> your attempts to force me into your narrow, political definitions
> based on what you think I believe.
>
> If you are unable to engage in a friendly discussion, whether we
> agree or not, without resorting to personal attacks, I understand.
> Not everyone is capable of that level of intellectual discourse and
> I won't hold it against you.
>
> Third, that article was from a Scot newspaper about the National
> Health Service in Scotland, not the WSJ. Why you refer to the news
> article as propaganda, I do not know.
>
> ******************************
> "In the days before volcanoes were invented, lava had to be hand
> carried down from the mountains and poured on the sleeping villagers.
> This took a great deal of time."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Stafford Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:53 am
> Subject: Re: Secret wait for cancer patients
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>> ********************************************************
>>
>> VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
>>
>> http://www.africanassociation.org
>>
>> FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
>>
>> MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
>>
>> ********************************************************
>>
>> I knew why you posted the propaganda, which is why I responded. The
>>
>> answer is people who have no insurance have a secret wait of forever.
>>
>> But its just not as dire as you want it to be. Britain's NHS has
>> been
>>
>> pointed out as horrible since its inception, so that article should
>> be
>>
>> taken with a huge grain of salt. Still, NHS is something. Also,
>> people who have insurance have their health care meted out, or
>> rationed, as you say. Ask anyone who has watched a loved one die
>> because they did not have access to a particular treatment. The
>> overwhelming majority of people without health insurance do not fit
>> into the qualification box for low income health care. And surely
>> your right wing news bible, the WSJ, in addition to describing the
>> end
>>
>> of the world now that Obama is in office, has pointed out to you why
>>
>> states don't offer such programs for the impoverished: no money.
>>
>> The world just is not as black and white as you see it. Go see the
>> film Sicko. I got sick in South Africa and the total cost of
>> emergency care and medicine was a whopping $8.00. But its
>> interesting, if it there was any truth to those privileged enough to
>>
>> be insured having to give up something, you being a Christian and not
>>
>> willing to give up anything for the greater good.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:56 AM, VERA R CROWELL wrote:
>>
>>> ********************************************************
>>>
>>> VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
>>>
>>> http://www.africanassociation.org
>>>
>>> FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
>>>
>>> MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
>>>
>>> ********************************************************
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> The real question is not "how long the "secret" wait is for people
>>
>>> with no access to health care." In many states, the people with no
>>
>>> health insurance through work or who are low-income have access to
>>
>>> programs like Wisconsin's BadgerCare. If the state chooses not to
>>> fund such a program, then those people in that state are without
>>> options. The real question is why don't all states offer such
>>> programs to low income and the under-insured?
>>>
>>> I posted that article because people seem to believe that national
>>
>>> health care will solve all health care issues and people without
>>> insurance will magically be covered and everything will be fine.
>>> That is not the case. Everyone's health care costs will go up and
>>> the care we receive will be rationed. What is now covered will not
>>
>>> be covered because cost-effectiveness is the #1 priority in national
>>
>>> health care. If you are old, fewer health care resources will be
>>> expended on you than are expended on the young. Also, if your
>>> illness is caused by your own actions, fewer health care resources
>>
>>> will be expended on you.
>>>
>>> ******************************
>>> "In the days before volcanoes were invented, lava had to be hand
>>> carried down from the mountains and poured on the sleeping
>>> villagers.
>>> This took a great deal of time."
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: John Stafford Anderson <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:58 am
>>> Subject: Re: Secret wait for cancer patients
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>> ********************************************************
>>>>
>>>> VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
>>>>
>>>> http://www.africanassociation.org
>>>>
>>>> FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
>>>>
>>>> MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
>>>>
>>>> ********************************************************
>>>>
>>>> Wonder how long the "secret" wait is for people with no access to
>>>> health care?
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 13, 2009, at 8:46 AM, VERA R CROWELL wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ********************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>> VISIT AFRICAN ASSOCIATION OF MADISON WEBSITE
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.africanassociation.org
>>>>>
>>>>> FOR LATEST INFORMATION ON AFRICA FEST 2009,
>>>>>
>>>>> MEMBERSHIP, COMMUNITY CALENDAR AND MUCH MORE....
>>>>>
>>>>> ********************************************************
>>>>>
>>>>> More good news on National Health Services!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.scotsman.com/latestnews/Secret-wait-for-cancer-patients.5451457.jp
>>>>>
>>>>> Secret wait for cancer patients
>>>>> Published Date: 12 July 2009
>>>>> By Eddie Barnes
>>>>> CANCER patients are still waiting as long as a year to get life-
>>>>> saving hospital treatment, despite ministers' claims waiting time
>>>>> targets are being met.
>>>>> Scotland on Sunday has obtained official hospital by hospital
>>>>> data,
>>>>
>>>>> unpublished by the Scottish Government, which shows that for
>>>>> certain
>>>>
>>>>> types of cancer, patients in some units are waiting an average of
>>>>> 100 days before getting treated.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the most extreme case, an Edinburgh patient with urological
>>>>> cancer – likely kidney, testicular or prostate – had to wait 375
>>>>> days after first seeing the GP before getting treatment.
>>>>>
>>>>> In May, Scottish ministers revealed that they had met a target to
>>>>> ensure all "urgent" cancer cases were seen within 62 days.
>>>>> However,
>>>>
>>>>> the figure does not include the thousands of so-called "non-
>>>>> urgent"
>>>>
>>>>> cases – classified as such because GPs have not flagged up cancer
>> as
>>>>
>>>>> a possible cause of their illness.
>>>>>
>>>>> In total, some 27,000 patients are diagnosed with cancer in
>>>>> Scotland
>>>>
>>>>> ever year. But only 9,500 of them were classified as "urgent" by
>>
>>>>> GPs.
>>>>>
>>>>> ******************************
>>>>> "In the days before volcanoes were invented, lava had to be hand
>>>>> carried down from the mountains and poured on the sleeping
>>>>> villagers.
>>>>> This took a great deal of time."
>>>>>
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